Unpopular/Controversial Opinions

[Mary Jay]

My standpoint is that if your new character is so weak that they need to latch on to a long established property just to sell... then they weren't worth creating in the first place. If this market they keep claiming to be after that demands well created and diverse characters actually exists.... then a well made and strong character will sell.

If the market isn't actually there... then why alienate the readers they DO have. The comic fandom has gotten insanely bitter over the years and I don't predict this hobby will survive much more.

I completely agree with this.

Some fans will even get offended, "As a long time reader I feel it is an insult to me giving this new character a book instead of publishing yet another X-titlle/Deadpool/Spiderman or whatever."

I beg to differ. Yes, long time readers have said they felt it like an insult that a new character gets a solo, but from what I've seen, it's not to complain that Peter Parker or Tony Stark, or Logan, or Steve Rogers doesn't have one. They're more upset that B-characters who have been around for years and years and never had a proper solo book, don't get to have one but new characters do. As an example: the Wasp.

Yeah the problem is that fans say make new characters, but they don't really care about new characters. Marvel's problem is that when they make new characters they want instant gratification in terms of sales and popularity, the easiest way to do that is having a new character take on a classic ones mantle. They don't want to take the years necessary to set up a new character in other books first, they want their new Ms. Marvel but that was lightning in a bottle and you can't recreate that artificially. Fans get upset at these new characters taking on these mantle's because it feels like a cheap and fast way to get interest in these characters at the expense of the classic ones, but at the same time they would never read a book starring a brand new character.

I agree with everything you said, but wanted to comment on the part in bold. Since this is the "unpopular/controversial opinion" thread, here's one.

Fans who say "make new characters" can have another reason for saying this. They say to make new ones because that way, they'll be able to continue reading their favorite character because he or she won't get replaced. It's more "make new, so you won't replace my favorite". The thing is, when your favorite is still being published, you're a lot more likely to pick up new titles also, and as a side effect feel no resentment towards the new character because he or she won't prevent you from reading about your favorite character.

[phantom1592]

I completely agree with this.
I agree with everything you said, but wanted to comment on the part in bold. Since this is the "unpopular/controversial opinion" thread, here's one.

Fans who say "make new characters" can have another reason for saying this. They say to make new ones because that way, they'll be able to continue reading their favorite character because he or she won't get replaced. It's more "make new, so you won't replace my favorite". The thing is, when your favorite is still being published, you're a lot more likely to pick up new titles also, and as a side effect feel no resentment towards the new character because he or she won't prevent you from reading about your favorite character.

That strikes a chord!

I still miss the 90's when new books with new characters were EVERYWHERE. Darkhawk... Sleepwalker... Nightwatch... Darkhold Redeemers... All brand new characters who showed up in their own books first with the occasional guest-star like Spider-man or Wolverine to push them out the gate. I honestly didn't care about Sleepwalker at all. I LOVED Darkhawk. However, just because I didnt' care about Sleepwalker... didn't mean I would rail against him having a book. If I didn't like a character I ignored it. Some of them succeeded, some didn't. I still had books I liked and followed the characters I liked.

It's a very different strategy than what they do now. They give Sam a book, but take away Steve. They give Jane a hammer, but turn Thor into a broken shell of himself... Different people have different issues... but it should never be about new(er) characters getting A, the complaint is that they are taking THAT book...

It's like when Daredevil disappeared and Black Panther took over the title. That's fine and all... but I didn't subscribe to Black Panther, I subscribed to DAREDEVIL...

[Carabas]

That strikes a chord!

I still miss the 90's when new books with new characters were EVERYWHERE. Darkhawk... Sleepwalker... Nightwatch... Darkhold Redeemers... All brand new characters who showed up in their own books first with the occasional guest-star like Spider-man or Wolverine to push them out the gate. I honestly didn't care about Sleepwalker at all. I LOVED Darkhawk. However, just because I didnt' care about Sleepwalker... didn't mean I would rail against him having a book. If I didn't like a character I ignored it. Some of them succeeded, some didn't.

Question: which ones succeeded (as in are now popular A/B-list characters that have their own book)?

[phantom1592]

Question: which ones succeeded (as in are now popular A/B-list characters that have their own book)?

Ghost Rider has been Ketch in everything but name... Blade is still quite popular... New Warrirors keeps getting rebooted... Darkhawk is being featured in this legacy thing... Nova may not qualify as I think he was originally 70's but New Warriors pushed him back into the limelight... Same with Luke Cage getting revitalized.

Again though, there are different levels of success. This was 25 years ago and the fact that even if they aren't starring a book right now, they are still remembered should mean something. Darkhawk came out of the gate with his very own book and it lasted for 50 issues. New Warriors has 3 or 4 volumes now and will probably keeping more shots. I consider those successes even if they didn't hit 'Spider-man/Wolverine/Punisher' level success.

This is part of the problem though, if it isn't X-book, Avenger-book or Spider-man.... NOBODY is really getting books anymore.

[Carabas]

Ghost Rider has been Ketch in everything but name... Blade is still quite popular...

They're both from the 70's, and I thought replacing existing heroes was a big nono? Sorry, but the new Ghost rider doesn't qualify as a new character. I'm pretty sure Johnny Blaze fans just loved him.

Also, how is Blade still quite popular? Where is his book?

[phantom1592]

They're both from the 70's, and I thought replacing existing heroes was a big nono?

Also, how is Blade still quite popular? Where is his book?

Ketch is that weird cross where he replaced Blaze then Blaze replaced him by taking everything that made Ketch, Ketch... So we now have the original Ghost Rider who swings flaming chains and has penance stares... it's a weird situation.

Also, on further consideration... Ketch never replaced Blaze. Blaze's story had been finished... His curse was broken, his story had a solid conclusion for about 9 years before Ketch relaunced the book. I see that as a major difference between Captain America getting Shot and Bucky putting on a Cap costume...

As for Blade? he's had about 7 different series, just guest appearance in Defenders, 3 movies and a tv series... and is on the shortlist everytime someone mentions a new Netflix series... How is he NOT popular?

[Midnight_v]

They're both from the 70's, and I thought replacing existing heroes was a big nono? Sorry, but the new Ghost rider doesn't qualify as a new character. I'm pretty sure Johnny Blaze fans just loved him.

Also, how is Blade still quite popular? Where is his book?

They didn't. Omg. That was the first "Hated" character I encountered when I was a kid. They hated the bike the outfit the fact that his daredevil evil knieval bit wasn't there as much.
The blaze/ketch thing was the first moment I realized how serious people took this comic book thing. They acted like him not being on a chopper was representative of the Japanese racing bikes that were cathing on.
They mocked him Calling him "Ghost Ricer" etc. So you know ymmv.

[Carabas]

They didn't. Omg. That was the first "Hated" character I encountered when I was a kid. They hated the bike the outfit the fact that his daredevil evil knieval bit wasn't there as much.
The blaze/ketch thing was the first moment I realized how serious people took this comic book thing. They acted like him not being on a chopper was representative of the Japanese racing bikes that were cathing on.
They mocked him Calling him "Ghost Ricer" etc. So you know ymmv.

Yeah, that sounds more likely than the fans being just fine with Blaze's story being finished.

Who ever heard of a corporate Marvel/DC superhero whose story was finished anyway?

[ed2962]

I beg to differ. Yes, long time readers have said they felt it like an insult that a new character gets a solo, but from what I've seen, it's not to complain that Peter Parker or Tony Stark, or Logan, or Steve Rogers doesn't have one. They're more upset that B-characters who have been around for years and years and never had a proper solo book, don't get to have one but new characters do. As an example: the Wasp.

I'm a long time reader and I think it's a massive shame that Jan Van Dyne hasn't had a solo in the 50 plus years she's been around ( I don't think she's even had a one shot), but do I have a right to be mad because America Chavez has one? I think Marvel blowing a big opportunity by not reviving Dazzler's comic, but did they give Gwenpool one instead just to get my goat? I mean I get being disappointed in the way some of our favorites are being handled ( or not handled) but the attitude that some fans have that Marvel's putting out titles they aren't into is Marvel purposely "disrespecting" them is what I question.

[ed2962]

Yeah, that sounds more likely than the fans being just fine with Blaze's story being finished.

Who ever heard of a corporate Marvel/DC superhero whose story was finished anyway?

Lots of characters have had their stories finished. Thing is, someone comes along later with what they think is a great idea or just wants to use their childhood favorite, so...

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

I asked who the most recent successful original Marvel characters were, and not a whole of names came up, and those that did weren't so much comerically successful as they were liked by forum members.

http://community.comicbookresources....n-recent-years

[johnnybourbon]

I think its a bit self sabotaging with the way they want "success". Its asking a bit much to take a brand new character and give them their own title to lead then expect it to pick up right out of the gate. It certainly happens sometimes but chances are they will be left with an <20k selling character that they force on people in hopes that they turn into Spider-Man over night. To use 2 characters mentioned earlier, Wolverine and Punisher, these characters took years appearing in other peoples books and being tweaked and redefined until they became capable of pulling any serious weight on their own. If they aren't willing to be patient then yeah new characters might not take but I certainly wouldn't blame the fans for it, I'd blame Marvel for trying to force something instead of letting it develop organically. Every character in print had to start somewhere, audiences today more or less have the same tendencies as audiences did 10, 20, 30 years ago so the only thing we should be criticizing is talent and editorial. No one has an obligation to buy something they aren't interested in and as we all know there are literally hundreds of characters who have been lost along the way, so this isn't anything new.

If Marvel feels they need to get diversity out there now then they'd probably be better off investing in established characters while they work on new ones and give them time to take root. Put some top talent on Cage, give Dazzler another run, give Valkyrie a shot, maybe with a small team behind her but (and this is a VERY important part) don't reboot the character. Instead of taking established characters, and rebooting them for a new audience let them keep their roots and bring along all that history and existing momentum with them. This is where they screwed up with Carol, Fearless Defenders, Hellcat etc. They may as well just be different characters. There are plenty of heroes that get new life breathed into them every few years with nothing but a good team telling some good stories (Daredevil is a great example).

As for the new characters, restart Marvel Team Up, Two in One, Strange Tales etc type books and let some of these new characters get their feet wet on the coattails of a stronger character. Let them linger in the background for a while, when there is a demand it'll get recognized. When there isn't then I guess its off to the land of characters that didn't make it, they can always get a second shot later.

[Nomads1]

http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/marvel...#axzz4rSnBZywL

I know it's not the most reliable source,and they admit it's rumors, but it sure paints a chaotic picture, like the left hand doing the exact opposite of the right. One thing that I knew was comming, but that still makes me sad if confirmed is the killing of the New Warriors franchise by making them a foil to Squirrel Girl, alá the TV show.

Peace

[Agent Z]

Amadeus Cho is the Dumbest Smart Person In The Marvel Universe. The Hulk doesn't kill anyone because super math. Give me a break.

[Jabare]

I prefer the Ed Norton Hulk and Banner to the Mark Ruffalo versions and wish the 2012 to 2018 films used Hulks closer to that version