Unpopular/Controversial Opinions

[Noek]

People claim that mutants don't serve as a metaphor for minorities, but I wonder how those same people would feel if the stories were about robots hunting, imprisoning and murdering Latino or Asian people, or Earth's mightiest heroes attacking an island/refuge for the few remaining lgbtqia+ in the world after a certain person decided to erase them from existence or if black people had to fight to eliminate a toxic substance in the atmosphere that was killing them only, and still be painted as villains.

I question this as a black gay man.

I just feel that it failed as people were/are getting angry when it is revealed a Mutant character is LGBTQIA+. I get what message they are trying to tell, but if people agree with the message but only apply that to Mutants the fictional group, then what is the point of saying this is what they represent when it is the message isn't being understood by who it is for.

[davetvs]

I just feel that it failed as people were/are getting angry when it is revealed a Mutant character is LGBTQIA+. I get what message they are trying to tell, but if people agree with the message but only apply that to Mutants the fictional group, then what is the point of saying this is what they represent when it is the message isn't being understood by who it is for.

That's not the fault of the storytellers or the stories themselves. Comics pander too much to the lowest common denominator as it is. If they don't get it it's because they don't want to, not because the metaphor is weak or hard to understand.

I'd also guess that most of the people who don't like the metaphor or rally against it are not actually ethnic or sexual minorities, so I don't take those criticisms as valid. X-Men has always spoken to me more than any other franchise because I am both African-American and gay.

[CosmiComic]

He kept on talking about starting a “mutant revolution” which ended up being a peaceful demonstration in Washington D.C.

He couldn’t be authoritarian cause he wasn’t ruling anything, just leading a very small faction of mutants.

Um, ok

People claim that mutants don't serve as a metaphor for minorities, but I wonder how those same people would feel if the stories were about robots hunting, imprisoning and murdering Latino or Asian people, or Earth's mightiest heroes attacking an island/refuge for the few remaining lgbtqia+ in the world after a certain person decided to erase them from existence or if black people had to fight to eliminate a toxic substance in the atmosphere that was killing them only, and still be painted as villains.

I question this as a black gay man.

I don't like the metaphor because it uses majority stand-ins for minority characters. I'd prefer comics deal with real bigotry. As a mixed race person, I question that, especially when being a mutant doesn't at all represent being mixed race to me. I'm not even sure what you're saying, tbh

I'd say the current X-Men seem more like a supremacist dream come true than an allegory for minorities. Yeah, I'm sure that's not going to be controversial at all.

Peace

It kinda does. Especially with the whole "we're special because we're born with the ability to gain powers, and you're not". It would make more sense if guys like Magneto were the parallel of bigots

That's not the fault of the storytellers or the stories themselves. Comics pander too much to the lowest common denominator as it is. If they don't get it it's because they don't want to, not because the metaphor is weak or hard to understand.

I'd also guess that most of the people who don't like the metaphor or rally against it are not actually ethnic or sexual minorities, so I don't take those criticisms as valid. X-Men has always spoken to me more than any other franchise because I am both African-American and gay.

How can you say most people who don't like the metaphor aren't minorities? IMO, the people who like this metaphor would be more likely to be in the majority because then they wouldn't have to confront anything real. Why care about African-American rights, for instance, when you can just read about Cyclops?

[Kingdom X]

I swear every time I come over here to see what unpopular opinions exist for other Marvel characters, a debate over the mutant metaphor is going on.

The metaphor works for some people and doesn't work for some others. There's no correlation between whether someone is a real life minority and if they like the metaphor. Some minorities grew up with the X-Men being the only comic that addressed issues of oppression and some preferred more realistic representation. No point of view is less valid than the other, especially because they're not mutually exclusive.

[davetvs]

How can you say most people who don't like the metaphor aren't minorities? IMO, the people who like this metaphor would be more likely to be in the majority because then they wouldn't have to confront anything real. Why care about African-American rights, for instance, when you can just read about Cyclops?

I can't say that with any certainty, I'm just guessing based on my experiences as someone the metaphor applies to and who has always resonated with it. As have my other minority friends (ethnic or sexual) who love the X-Men in part because they have an emotional attachment to the concept of a team of persecuted minorities "fighting for a world that hates and fears them." I just can't imagine anyone other than the typical comic fanboy wanting or needing to invalidate the metaphor, or constantly trying to litigate its relevance.

[Nomads1]

I swear every time I come over here to see what unpopular opinions exist for other Marvel characters, a debate over the mutant metaphor is going on.

The metaphor works for some people and doesn't work for some others. There's no correlation between whether someone is a real life minority and if they like the metaphor. Some minorities grew up with the X-Men being the only comic that addressed issues of oppression and some preferred more realistic representation. No point of view is less valid than the other, especially because they're not mutually exclusive.

The metaphor was never wht got me into the X-Men, and I have to say the insistence and the escalonating on it was greatly responsible for driving me away.

Peace

[CosmiComic]

I swear every time I come over here to see what unpopular opinions exist for other Marvel characters, a debate over the mutant metaphor is going on.

The metaphor works for some people and doesn't work for some others. There's no correlation between whether someone is a real life minority and if they like the metaphor. Some minorities grew up with the X-Men being the only comic that addressed issues of oppression and some preferred more realistic representation. No point of view is less valid than the other, especially because they're not mutually exclusive.

It'll probably keep being brought up as long as visible representation of minorities is an issue.

I can't say that with any certainty, I'm just guessing based on my experiences as someone the metaphor applies to and who has always resonated with it. As have my other minority friends (ethnic or sexual) who love the X-Men in part because they have an emotional attachment to the concept of a team of persecuted minorities "fighting for a world that hates and fears them." I just can't imagine anyone other than the typical comic fanboy wanting or needing to invalidate the metaphor, or constantly trying to litigate its relevance.

You can't imagine, but several comments have questioned this metaphor for the opposite reason. From my view, the metaphor just exists to continue giving lip service to real world issues of persecution without being too direct so as not to offend the kinds of fanboys you're talking about. Ask yourself which would they prefer more: using White dudes like Cyclops and fake bigotry, or non-White heroes like Falcon and actual bigotry. Because I think the "typical fanboy" would be more comfortable with the former, because they can't stand "politics in muh comics"

The metaphor was never wht got me into the X-Men, and I have to say the insistence and the escalonating on it was greatly responsible for driving me away.

Peace

I kinda feel that way too. Why do I need a character like Emma Frost to explain racism to me, in 2021? I can look for other comics tackling more real issues.

[davetvs]

It'll probably keep being brought up as long as visible representation of minorities is an issue.

You can't imagine, but several comments have questioned this metaphor for the opposite reason. From my view, the metaphor just exists to continue giving lip service to real world issues of persecution without being too direct so as not to offend the kinds of fanboys you're talking about. Ask yourself which would they prefer more: using White dudes like Cyclops and fake bigotry, or non-White heroes like Falcon and actual bigotry. Because I think the "typical fanboy" would be more comfortable with the former, because they can't stand "politics in muh comics"

I kinda feel that way too. Why do I need a character like Emma Frost to explain racism to me, in 2021? I can look for other comics tackling more real issues.

I guess I'm just coming from a place of not caring to center that type of fanboy in my thinking or in my perception of what The X-Men represent. I don't care if they'd prefer to have Cyclops talk about discrimination than Falcon; I don't care about them at all. The X-Men at its core is about civil rights, human rights. There are obvious parallels to anti-black racism and homophobia that resonate with me because I live those experiences, but there are also tons of other identity markers I don't personally have that are covered under the banner of people or groups struggling for civil rights, as well, and they're important too. If the core concept of the franchise is "discriminating against minorities is bad," I'm never going to see that as a negative. The metaphor maybe doesn't go as far as it could and isn't always written as strongly as it could be (I blame that on the majority of comic writers being heterosexual white males, for what it's worth), but you could also say the same thing about any other long running property; it's the nature of comics.

[Anthony W]

1. Marvel only has the talent to put out 25 to 30 superhero books.

2. Marvel needs to explain why Luke Charles legally changed his name to Luke Cage. I get that he was a wanted man,but once you're name is cleared you reclaim your true name. What is he hiding? Why is he ashamed of his family name?

3. Marvel needs to start making use of older talent. You can make an argument that Peter David isn't what he used to be but that is still leagues better than Aaron or Ayala. The same goes for Nicieza and Busiek.

4. It's time for Miles and Kate Bishop to get a codename. Why? because everyone calls them Miles and Kate

5. If Ms. Marvel had her powers changed for the Disney+ show I will support it. As for all the people bummed out at her not being able to shout "Embiggen"? Using that as a catch phrase was always dumb....yeah I said it.

6. Marvel should just release Kibblesmith's New Warriors so we can all laugh at it or say it wasn't as bad as we thought it would be.

7. We get what the X-Men are about, but we only want the title to wave at those issues as it drives past them (much like that homeless person on the corner screaming at no one) on the way to our fun comics destination. We don't want to stop the car and we certainly don't want to get out of the car. Unfortunately the current books wants us to do that...so expect them to start dropping like rocks again pretty soon.

[CosmiComic]

I guess I'm just coming from a place of not caring to center that type of fanboy in my thinking or in my perception of what The X-Men represent. I don't care if they'd prefer to have Cyclops talk about discrimination than Falcon; I don't care about them at all. The X-Men at its core is about civil rights, human rights. There are obvious parallels to anti-black racism and homophobia that resonate with me because I live those experiences, but there are also tons of other identity markers I don't personally have that are covered under the banner of people or groups struggling for civil rights, as well, and they're important too. If the core concept of the franchise is "discriminating against minorities is bad," I'm never going to see that as a negative. The metaphor maybe doesn't go as far as it could and isn't always written as strongly as it could be (I blame that on the majority of comic writers being heterosexual white males, for what it's worth), but you could also say the same thing about any other long running property; it's the nature of comics.

Ok, but my point is you're acting like anyone criticizing the X-Men metaphor is because they don't want more representation, not because they do. Many comments, including mine, have criticized the X-Men for not going far enough. Using majority characters to appropriate and represent minority struggles is part of the problem, especially when visible representation of actual minority heroes is far from perfect or sufficient. But these kinds of comments from X-fans always seem to act like only they care about showing discrimination in comics, when that's far from true.

And "discriminating against minorities is bad" is the most basic thing the X-comics can do. Bigotry is a lot more complex than that. You're right about the majority of comics writers being from the majority being part of the problem. But the X-metaphor is an extension of that

[CosmiComic]

1. Marvel only has the talent to put out 25 to 30 superhero books.

2. Marvel needs to explain why Luke Charles legally changed his name to Luke Cage. I get that he was a wanted man,but once you're name is cleared you reclaim your true name. What is he hiding? Why is he ashamed of his family name?

3. Marvel needs to start making use of older talent. You can make an argument that Peter David isn't what he used to be but that is still leagues better than Aaron or Ayala. The same goes for Nicieza and Busiek.

4. It's time for Miles and Kate Bishop to get a codename. Why? because everyone calls them Miles and Kate

5. If Ms. Marvel had her powers changed for the Disney+ show I will support it. As for all the people bummed out at her not being able to shout "Embiggen"? Using that as a catch phrase was always dumb....yeah I said it.

I don't agree about the change. Shapeshifting is a cool power, and we have more than enough "energy beam" heroes. Just look at the Eternals trailer

6. Marvel should just release Kibblesmith's New Warriors so we can all laugh at it or say it wasn't as bad as we thought it would be.

7. We get what the X-Men are about, but we only want the title to wave at those issues as it drives past them (much like that homeless person on the corner screaming at no one) on the way to our fun comics destination. We don't want to stop the car and we certainly don't want to get out of the car. Unfortunately the current books wants us to do that...so expect them to start dropping like rocks again pretty soon.

I also don't agree with that. Dealing with issues and being fun aren't mutually exclusive. For some, seeing these things be addressed when they're not in the real world can be entertainment.

[davetvs]

Ok, but my point is you're acting like anyone criticizing the X-Men metaphor is because they don't want more representation, not because they do. Many comments, including mine, have criticized the X-Men for not going far enough. Using majority characters to appropriate and represent minority struggles is part of the problem, especially when visible representation of actual minority heroes is far from perfect or sufficient. But these kinds of comments from X-fans always seem to act like only they care about showing discrimination in comics, when that's far from true.

And "discriminating against minorities is bad" is the most basic thing the X-comics can do. Bigotry is a lot more complex than that. You're right about the majority of comics writers being from the majority being part of the problem. But the X-metaphor is an extension of that

I only started reading and responding to the thread from Noek's comment at the top of the page; I haven't read the discussion prior to that so if your comments have been about the minority metaphor being shoddily written or sloppily applied at times, and needing more diverse representation both of X-Men characters who are in the spotlight and writers themselves to write them as someone with a more nuanced understanding of issues with minority representation in media, I totally agree with you.

My problem is that (again, ignorantly on my part since I didn't read the rest of it) this discussion tends to revolve around comments like Anthony W's which are more akin to "ew, not this minority shit again." There are hundreds of other comics you could be reading if all you want is standard superhero fare; what is the point of coming to the one that's explicitly about civil rights to complain about how you're tired of that theme?

[CosmiComic]

I only started reading and responding to the thread from Noek's comment at the top of the page; I haven't read the discussion prior to that so if your comments have been about the minority metaphor being shoddily written or sloppily applied at times, and needing more diverse representation both of X-Men characters who are in the spotlight and writers themselves to write them as someone with a more nuanced understanding of issues with minority representation in media, I totally agree with you.

My problem is that (again, ignorantly on my part since I didn't read the rest of it) this discussion tends to revolve around comments like Anthony W's which are more akin to "ew, not this minority shit again." There are hundreds of other comics you could be reading if all you want is standard superhero fare; what is the point of coming to the one that's explicitly about civil rights to complain about how you're tired of that theme?

Ok. I don't agree with those kinds of comments either. I've never had a problem with issues like civil rights and discrimination in comics. In fact, I welcome it.

As for X-Men, I just don't feel the metaphor works anymore. It feels to me like a relic of an era where actually discussing the real discrimination minorities face was too taboo. Now, it's not so much anymore. Every minority individual and demographic experiences prejudice in a different way, so IMO that should be directly reflected in the comics. I'm not a huge Sam Wilson fan, but I got more out of both his solo as Captain America as well as FaWS than I ever really got from the X-Men, because it was direct, and didn't use someone like Cyclops or Angel to make it more comfortable for the kinds of people who complain about any "politics" in comics. I just want representation to be visible, direct and not filtered for majority readers or audiences.

[Anthony W]

Carl Lucas! Sorry got the name wrong. Thinking about Charles Xavier and Luke Cage at the same time.

[Nomads1]

Carl Lucas! Sorry got the name wrong. Thinking about Charles Xavier and Luke Cage at the same time.

If I'm not mistaken, Luke Charles was an ID, T'challa used when he was stateside back when he joined the Avengers.

Peace