Unpopular/Controversial Opinions

[Anthony W]

I also don't agree with that. Dealing with issues and being fun aren't mutually exclusive. For some, seeing these things be addressed when they're not in the real world can be entertainment.

And for some it can be seen as boring and pointless asking people to pay for depressing and divisive issues that they read comics to escape from when they can get them for free by walking outside or turning on the news. The only thing you end up doing is splitting the audience in half. When I say half I'm being generous. That is why cloaking it in metaphors are important. Some fans see it for what it is, but don't mind being finessed as long as the book doesn't get too in your face. Others never pick up on it. Others get it but want more, but still sick around.

That is the beauty of metaphor, it allows you to hold on to fans who otherwise would leave if you went whole hog on being straight forward.

[CosmiComic]

And for some it can be seen as boring and pointless asking people to pay for depressing and divisive issues that they read comics to escape from when they can get them for free by walking outside or turning on the news. The only thing you end up doing is splitting the audience in half. When I say half I'm being generous. That is why cloaking it in metaphors are important. Some fans see it for what it is, but don't mind being finessed as long as the book doesn't get too in your face. Others never pick up on it. Others get it but want more, but still sick around.

That is the beauty of metaphor, it allows you to hold on to fans who otherwise would leave if you went whole hog on being straight forward.

What do you mean by splitting in half? Pointing out things like actual racism is too much for some fans? because from what I see, the division already exists, but many in the majority choose to downplay or ignore it. Then point fingers at minorities and say "You're tearing us apart!" Honestly, the metaphor is a version of that. A comfy filter to block people addressing what's real because it discomforts them. I don't get this "talking about issues makes people angry" thing comments like these always immediately jump to. If people have a problem with acknowledging the world isn't perfect, and that some groups have it harder, that's on them, not on Marvel

And the metaphor does nothing for real representation of minority heroes.

[Anthony W]

What do you mean by splitting in half? Pointing out things like actual racism is too much for some fans?

Well if they are reading it as a form of escapism and it's only twenty-six pages and cost three ninety-nine.

because from what I see, the division already exists, but many in the majority choose to downplay or ignore it. Then point fingers at minorities and say "You're tearing us apart!"

Notice that I'm not disagreeing with you...

Honestly, the metaphor is a version of that. A comfy filter to block people addressing what's real because it discomforts them. I don't get this "talking about issues makes people angry" thing comments like these always immediately jump to

You don't? Really? Soooo....you haven't witnessed the ever growing partisan divide in this country? Lucky you.

If people have a problem with acknowledging the world isn't perfect, and that some groups have it harder, that's on them, not on Marvel

The problem is when people walk away they tend to take their wallets/purses/clips (or those strange folk who just walk around with the money in their pockets I'm not judging) with them. Marvel has to make up for that cash, it is a business.

And the metaphor does nothing for real representation of minority heroes.

I have to disagree The X-Men have always been ahead of the curve when it comes to people of color.

[Doom'nGloom]

Red and black outfits during Robinson's run are the best looks Fantastic Four has ever had. God I wish they make a return.

[CosmiComic]

Well if they are reading it as a form of escapism and it's only twenty-six pages and cost three ninety-nine.

Can't heroes trying to help people with the problems they face also be a form of escapism?

Notice that I'm not disagreeing with you...



You don't? Really? Soooo....you haven't witnessed the ever growing partisan divide in this country? Lucky you.

Ok, so you agree with me. That's good. That's why I'm saying the 'partisan divide' is nonsense, in a way. There isn't always 'both sides' to an issue, like racism, for example, and when one side, the majority, ignores the other side for so long, of course the marginalized minority is going to eventually part ways with that thinking. Of course politicians of any group take advantage of it, and I don't like partisan politics, but that doesn't mean I think both sides have valid points. When it comes to issues like racism, or COVID-19, one side seems to be more wrong than right. So when people complain about the growing divide, my though is "Are people just supposed to pretend everything is good?"

The problem is when people walk away they tend to take their wallets/purses/clips (or those strange folk who just walk around with the money in their pockets I'm not judging) with them. Marvel has to make up for that cash, it is a business.

That's true, but pandering to those people isn't the right idea either. And it's possible Marvel can reach new demographics by changing things around.

I have to disagree The X-Men have always been ahead of the curve when it comes to people of color.

That's only somewhat true. X-Men are the most diverse when it comes to many ethnic demographics (Asian, Native American, Native Australian), but when it comes to actually touching on the real issues in any way, I find X-Men lacking. Their metaphor leads someone like Cyclops or Emma Frost to be the poster child for civil rights, when that would be laughable in the real world. I think "Cyclops was right" fans might miss that. And even other Marvel comics have dealt with real bigotry and oppression, to some extent. So while X-Men are diverse in quantity (and that's very good), it's not due to the metaphor, which I think in some ways works against improving the quality of diversity.

[Sutekh]

Red and black outfits during Robinson's run are the best looks Fantastic Four has ever had. God I wish they make a return.

I wouldn't mind seeing each of the four wear a different costume for one story, for whatever reason. Johnny in the red and black. Sue in the white. Ben in the old classic blue. Reed in the darker blue. Just mix it up and not have all four in the matching colors. (Maybe go all the way and have it be a Kang crosstime shenanigans caper, with actual time-tossed members of the Four from very different eras, similar to how Avengers Forever had a team up between some present, past and future Avengers, all thrown together?)

[Anthony W]

Can't heroes trying to help people with the problems they face also be a form of escapism?

Sure, but there are levels to this.

Ok, so you agree with me. That's good. That's why I'm saying the 'partisan divide' is nonsense, in a way. There isn't always 'both sides' to an issue, like racism, for example, and when one side, the majority, ignores the other side for so long, of course the marginalized minority is going to eventually part ways with that thinking. Of course politicians of any group take advantage of it, and I don't like partisan politics, but that doesn't mean I think both sides have valid points. When it comes to issues like racism, or COVID-19, one side seems to be more wrong than right. So when people complain about the growing divide, my though is "Are people just supposed to pretend everything is good?

I'm going to assume we are still talking about comics and tie it into that. Think of the metaphor as a spoonful of sugar helping the medicine go down.

That's true, but pandering to those people isn't the right idea either. And it's possible Marvel can reach new demographics by changing things around.

Getting a group of people to willingly pay for entertainment that they would ordinarily be against while still holding on to the audience that "gets" it isn't so much pandering as it is brilliant.

That's only somewhat true. X-Men are the most diverse when it comes to many ethnic demographics (Asian, Native American, Native Australian), but when it comes to actually touching on the real issues in any way, I find X-Men lacking.

Well in defense of the X-Men are we really here for that? Or are we really here to see some action, some quips, Wolverine popping his claws and some soap opera style antics?

Their metaphor leads someone like Cyclops or Emma Frost to be the poster child for civil rights, when that would be laughable in the real world. I think "Cyclops was right" fans might miss that. And even other Marvel comics have dealt with real bigotry and oppression, to some extent. So while X-Men are diverse in quantity (and that's very good), it's not due to the metaphor, which I think in some ways works against improving the quality of diversity.

I think the metaphor did play a big part in why the X-Men became so diverse. And yes X-Men does deal with real bigotry and oppression to some extent, almost like the title is waving at the issues as it drives by them on the way to its fun comics destination. Hey look, I brought it back around to my original post.

[CosmiComic]

Sure, but there are levels to this.

I agree, but no one's asking for this to turn into a PSA.

I'm going to assume we are still talking about comics and tie it into that. Think of the metaphor as a spoonful of sugar helping the medicine go down.

Not a bad analogy, but does it ever actually lead to medicine, or is sugar just enough for these guys?

Getting a group of people to willingly pay for entertainment that they would ordinarily be against while still holding on to the audience that "gets" it isn't so much pandering as it is brilliant.

It's still pandering, and it's why it's been so hard to actually sell female and minority heroes. And fragile reactionaries really shouldn't be pandered to anymore IMO.

Well in defense of the X-Men are we really here for that? Or are we really here to see some action, some quips, Wolverine popping his claws and some soap opera style antics?

Personally, I like action, drama, characters, superpowers, politics, everything except soap opera style antics

I think the metaphor did play a big part in why the X-Men became so diverse. And yes X-Men does deal with real bigotry and oppression to some extent, almost like the title is waving at the issues as it drives by them on the way to its fun comics destination. Hey look, I brought it back around to my original post.

When have the X-Men gone that deep into anything? I feel the metaphor is just a way to sidestep the issues while paying lip service. And like I said, dealing with real-world problems isn't mutually exclusive to fun. For some of us from marginalized backgrounds, real worlds politics isn't necessarily some fun-destroyer or whatever

And how exactly did the metaphor making things more diverse? By making Cyclops the leader?

[Anthony W]

I agree, but no one's asking for this to turn into a PSA.

But that depends on what you think PSA is.

Not a bad analogy, but does it ever actually lead to medicine, or is sugar just enough for these guys?

I believe it does.

It's still pandering, and it's why it's been so hard to actually sell female and minority heroes. And fragile reactionaries really shouldn't be pandered to anymore IMO.

Once again the X-Men have always been far ahead of the curve when it comes to ethnic characters and the fact that that is partly made possible by people who ordinarily wouldn't read this book if not for its clever use of metaphor amuses me to no end. It's the perfect have your cake and eat it too situation.

Personally, I like action, drama, characters, superpowers, politics, everything except soap opera style antics

Okay.

When have the X-Men gone that deep into anything? I feel the metaphor is just a way to sidestep the issues while paying lip service. And like I said, dealing with real-world problems isn't mutually exclusive to fun. For some of us from marginalized backgrounds, real worlds politics isn't necessarily some fun-destroyer or whatever

And to some of us from marginalized backgrounds they are fun-destroyers

And how exactly did the metaphor making things more diverse? By making Cyclops the leader?

No, by making Storm the leader during the team's arguably most iconic period.

[Kingdom X]

I don’t know if this is unpopular but I hate that big runs often have to end with an event series these days with tie-ins across the MU. It just makes the stories feel less intimate.

[Writerblog]

No, by making Storm the leader during the team's arguably most iconic period.

With claremont? well that was big for the 80s, but the x-franchise haven't been the best to Storm since then. Good that she is getting some shining spot now

[CosmiComic]

But that depends on what you think PSA is.

It's not just having a political issue appearing in a comic. PSA is much more than that

I believe it does.

How so?

Once again the X-Men have always been far ahead of the curve when it comes to ethnic characters and the fact that that is partly made possible by people who ordinarily wouldn't read this book if not for its clever use of metaphor amuses me to no end. It's the perfect have your cake and eat it too situation.

But it's not perfect. Not by a long shot. It's not even really that clever. It's just "humans hate mutants, racism is bad." That's the bare minimum

Okay.



And to some of us from marginalized backgrounds they are fun-destroyers

Ok, but don't make blanket statements acting like they are for everyone. i'm not going to cry just because someone mentioned real world politics. Would you stop supporting a comic if it did?

No, by making Storm the leader during the team's arguably most iconic period.

Fine, but that was decades ago. What has she done lately?

[ChrisIII]

Red and black outfits during Robinson's run are the best looks Fantastic Four has ever had. God I wish they make a return.

Made them look a bit like the command uniforms from Star Trek TNG, which is kind of fitting since the FF are largely also explorers.

[Anthony W]

It's not just having a political issue appearing in a comic. PSA is much more than that

Ok.

How so

The X-Men's record when it comes to ethnic characters.

But it's not perfect. Not by a long shot. It's not even really that clever. It's just "humans hate mutants, racism is bad." That's the bare minimum

There is a saying, "Don't let perfect become the enemy of good" We agree that it isn't perfect. Perfect is rare, especially in superhero comics. Where we disagree is that I think it's good. So I'm fine with it.

Ok, but don't make blanket statements acting like they are for everyone. i'm not going to cry just because someone mentioned real world politics. Would you stop supporting a comic if it did?

I never claimed to speak for everyone (I wish I could that would be awesome) I was just giving my opinion on the book. I thought that was obvious this is the Unpopular/Controversial Opinions thread. But next time I will IMO it.

Fine, but that was decades ago. What has she done lately?

Become regent of Mars?

[Jabare]

Spider-Man should still be married to Mary Jane