Unpopular/Controversial Opinions

[Alex_Of_X]

I have one on Legacy heroes: they're great!

The lone wolf, never-jobber, uber-competent, solo super hero is a Reagan-age neolib construct. Literary "Dirty Harry."

"Never needs help" isn't a virtue, it's borderline sociopathy. Think Rorchach from Watchmen. Think Doctor Manhattan. The seminal superhero deconstruction comic lampshades exactly this.

Legacy heroes, on the contrary, show a hero willing to share powers\names with the community and inspire a following. Spidey isn't aspirational cause he stops the Rhino and drops him in jail. It's not cause of bludgeoning Firelord. It's his values--and how with those values he inspires others around him.

Miles being Spidey cause of Peter is a top-1 Peter Parker feat!

Thor is a better hero for Bill and Jane being around. Same to Steve and Sam, same for Tony and Riri

[Midnight_v]

I have one on Legacy heroes: they're great!

The lone wolf, never-jobber, uber-competent, solo super hero is a Reagan-age neolib construct. Literary "Dirty Harry."

"Never needs help" isn't a virtue, it's borderline sociopathy. Think Rorchach from Watchmen. Think Doctor Manhattan. The seminal superhero deconstruction comic lampshades exactly this.

Legacy heroes, on the contrary, show a hero willing to share powers\names with the community and inspire a following. Spidey isn't aspirational cause he stops the Rhino and drops him in jail. It's not cause of bludgeoning Firelord. It's his values--and how with those values he inspires others around him.

Miles being Spidey cause of Peter is a top-1 Peter Parker feat!

Thor is a better hero for Bill and Jane being around. Same to Steve and Sam, same for Tony and Riri

When you say something like that it begs the question how rounded out your knowledge base of literature is.

The lone wolf, never-jobber, The uber-competent , solo superhero, has been around since Gilgamesh. Literally since the dawn of recorded stories

The heroes journey is the story, which you should be familiar with at least you've seen it a 1000 times is the basis of that.

I'm not gonna go down the list of the knight errant in every bit of literature but its not an unpopular opinion to say " created by muh enemy era/politics"
its actually misinformation when put it that way.
Hercules did his labors alone and that story was iirc before Regan; Zorro was written in 1919 same principal. So what you say there is just not factual.

Spidey isn't aspirational cause he stops the Rhino and drops him in jail. It's not cause of bludgeoning Firelord. It's his values--and how with those values he inspires others around him

Spidey isn't an ASPRIATIONAL hero at all.
He's a Cathartic Motivational hero.
The aspirational heroes are heroes who don't need a multi-layered reason as to why they became a hero, they become a hero because it's simply the right thing to do.
They don't have moral failings nor do they or should question their aspirations.
While Peter Parker isn't ever a bad person, he starts out being somewhat selfish, using his powers to make money. The core of spiderman is working to be a better person and live up to what a hero should be, and become a better man in general. While they may never reach the level of an Aspirational hero, they will tend to grow into steadily better people.

Finally, i've come to the conclusion that "The Watchmen" gets used like the bible or the constitution people read it think and think they get it but use it to justify whatever point they're trying to make at the time. Which brings up my unpopular opinion that I came here for. I think people are suffering from "Deconstruction fatigue" you can only go so far into the deppressoverse before you WANT something classic and bright. You don't have to break your arm punching Cthulhu every story and its a goo time for that.

[Agent Z]

When you say something like that it begs the question how rounded out your knowledge base of literature is.

The lone wolf, never-jobber, The uber-competent , solo superhero, has been around since Gilgamesh. Literally since the dawn of recorded stories

The heroes journey is the story, which you should be familiar with at least you've seen it a 1000 times is the basis of that.

I'm not gonna go down the list of the knight errant in every bit of literature but its not an unpopular opinion to say " created by muh enemy era/politics"
its actually misinformation when put it that way.
Hercules did his labors alone and that story was iirc before Regan; Zorro was written in 1919 same principal. So what you say there is just not factual.


Spidey isn't an ASPRIATIONAL hero at all.
He's a Cathartic Motivational hero.
The aspirational heroes are heroes who don't need a multi-layered reason as to why they became a hero, they become a hero because it's simply the right thing to do.
They don't have moral failings nor do they or should question their aspirations.
While Peter Parker isn't ever a bad person, he starts out being somewhat selfish, using his powers to make money. The core of spiderman is working to be a better person and live up to what a hero should be, and become a better man in general. While they may never reach the level of an Aspirational hero, they will tend to grow into steadily better people.

Finally, i've come to the conclusion that "The Watchmen" gets used like the bible or the constitution people read it think and think they get it but use it to justify whatever point they're trying to make at the time. Which brings up my unpopular opinion that I came here for. I think people are suffering from "Deconstruction fatigue" you can only go so far into the deppressoverse before you WANT something classic and bright. You don't have to break your arm punching Cthulhu every story and its a goo time for that.

There are plenty of comics that aren't deconstructions. If people are suffering from deconstruction fatigue, they can read something else.

[Midnight_v]

There are plenty of comics that aren't deconstructions. If people are suffering from deconstruction fatigue, they can read something else.

Yeah. They could. but...

I don't really care. What they could or could not do is pretty irrelevant to what I said, Agent Z.

What I see though is an overabundance of deconstruction stories and attempts for such. So the next set of stories that play it straight and do it unabashedly? Gonna hit HARD. Course that might
take villians that are worthwhile too.

I didn't think that would get a lot of support here though, but then.... That's the point of an unpopular opinion thread. Enjoy.

[Alex_Of_X]

When you say something like that it begs the question how rounded out your knowledge base of literature is.

The lone wolf, never-jobber, The uber-competent , solo superhero, has been around since Gilgamesh. Literally since the dawn of recorded stories

The heroes journey is the story, which you should be familiar with at least you've seen it a 1000 times is the basis of that.

I'm not gonna go down the list of the knight errant in every bit of literature but its not an unpopular opinion to say " created by muh enemy era/politics"
its actually misinformation when put it that way.
Hercules did his labors alone and that story was iirc before Regan; Zorro was written in 1919 same principal. So what you say there is just not factual.


Spidey isn't an ASPRIATIONAL hero at all.
He's a Cathartic Motivational hero.
The aspirational heroes are heroes who don't need a multi-layered reason as to why they became a hero, they become a hero because it's simply the right thing to do.
They don't have moral failings nor do they or should question their aspirations.
While Peter Parker isn't ever a bad person, he starts out being somewhat selfish, using his powers to make money. The core of spiderman is working to be a better person and live up to what a hero should be, and become a better man in general. While they may never reach the level of an Aspirational hero, they will tend to grow into steadily better people.

Finally, i've come to the conclusion that "The Watchmen" gets used like the bible or the constitution people read it think and think they get it but use it to justify whatever point they're trying to make at the time. Which brings up my unpopular opinion that I came here for. I think people are suffering from "Deconstruction fatigue" you can only go so far into the deppressoverse before you WANT something classic and bright. You don't have to break your arm punching Cthulhu every story and its a goo time for that.

You're 100% on the money on "The Knight-errant" being an age-old tale. I wanna unpack this a little bit.

Having done his Labours, Hercules joins the Argonauts\Reunites with his family.
King Arthur founds Camelot and the Round Table
In the MU, Thor, having atoned, is allowed to return to Asgard
Aragorn join a fellowship

The "Solo arc" of a hero's journey concludes with community. In the comics, often it's a team: Avengers or Justice League or what not.
But I see Legacy heroes as an alternative road to this community-building. A hero's ideals spreading, like a virus of virtue.

Now, since we're dealing with never-ending stories in comics, characters will ebb and flow between "loner" and "leader". In the last 1- years Spidey joined the avengers, funded the avengers, and is now out of the avengers. But Miles\Spider-Gwen\Silk\etc have lasted! And I think it reflects well on the OG Hero.

Villains always come back. No one stays dead. Then, how do we show heroes being effective? Simple: by making more and more heroes.

[Midnight_v]

You're 100% on the money on "The Knight-errant" being an age-old tale. I wanna unpack this a little bit.

Having done his Labours, Hercules joins the Argonauts\Reunites with his family.
King Arthur founds Camelot and the Round Table
In the MU, Thor, having atoned, is allowed to return to Asgard
Aragorn join a fellowship

The "Solo arc" of a hero's journey concludes with community. In the comics, often it's a team: Avengers or Justice League or what not.
But I see Legacy heroes as an alternative road to this community-building. A hero's ideals spreading, like a virus of virtue.

Now, since we're dealing with never-ending stories in comics, characters will ebb and flow between "loner" and "leader". In the last 1- years Spidey joined the avengers, funded the avengers, and is now out of the avengers. But Miles\Spider-Gwen\Silk\etc have lasted! And I think it reflects well on the OG Hero.

Villains always come back. No one stays dead. Then, how do we show heroes being effective? Simple: by making more and more heroes.

Cool. I'm glad you didn't take that as a personal attack. When I came back and read it again it came off a little direct.

So what I hear you saying is "the lone drifter" isn't an end but a part of a longer tale of someone who does have family and friends etc. Though Hercules thats not correct either. In all traditions he either Kills his family in a fit of madnesss which causes his labors or completes his labors and then gets struck mad... killing his family. There's no happily ever after in there if were honest. Thor, in the MU is a bit reductive as its post reagan era. which is what my original "Wait, hol up" was with your post.

The other part? The "Solo arc" of the heroes journey... fam. . . Its a cycle. It doesn't needlessly end in death but it does start in the "ordinary world" so I'm not sure how much "ends in community" really manifests in the stories.

I feel like you placing too much importance in the idea of "community" but you have a point that I honestly never considered. What is the end for an "Immortal hero" to be fair it seems like they'd be on the heroes journey "there and back again" if you will many may times. So its an interesting thing you propose at least, its a never ending battle and arguing that the success of a hero be measure by his spin-offs certainly works for the batman side of things.
Yet... I don't believe thats the rule overall.

I'm not a fan of legacy characters because of the things we see at dc, and for every legacy character that's just a reskinned version of an existing there's innumerable other characters they could easily be getting that same attention.

There's more to that because current era politics permeates everything so even if there was a good reason for someone to carry on the mantle... its a little sketch.

I much rather prefer Obsidan and Jade than just giving ANOTHER GL ring to earth. There's for SURE a way to follow a legacy without putting on the exact same mask what the hell is it luchador logic?
No Boruto would better if Naruto came to still fighting madara.

I guess If you get spider powers what else should you do but call yourself a spider name and follow the nearest wall crawler, but... new characters can come from other places too.

[Omega Alpha]

I have one on Legacy heroes: they're great!

The lone wolf, never-jobber, uber-competent, solo super hero is a Reagan-age neolib construct. Literary "Dirty Harry."ri

Uh...Dirty Harry isn't a Reagan-age neolib construct.

[Alan2099]

I feel like you placing too much importance in the idea of "community" but you have a point that I honestly never considered. What is the end for an "Immortal hero" to be fair it seems like they'd be on the heroes journey "there and back again" if you will many may times. So its an interesting thing you propose at least, its a never ending battle and arguing that the success of a hero be measure by his spin-offs certainly works for the batman side of things.
Yet... I don't believe thats the rule overall.

I'm not a fan of legacy characters because of the things we see at dc, and for every legacy character that's just a reskinned version of an existing there's innumerable other characters they could easily be getting that same attention.

I find the spin-off heroes to be boring simply because they're just more of the same with some slight variation.

Compare modern Spider-man events to more classic events like Maximum Carnage or Revenge of the Sinister Six.

Right now if something major goes down in the Spider-books, Spider-man will be there, and the other spider-man will be there, and Spider-girl will be there, and the other spider-girl, and the other other spider-girl etc.

Look at the older books, Spider-man has to gather his group other from people like Morbius, Nova, Solo, Deathlok, Firestar, and the Hulk. There's a lot more variation both in terms of personality, powers, and visuals.

If they have to have the spin-off characters, they could at least given them their own names.

[Nomads1]

Finally, i've come to the conclusion that "The Watchmen" gets used like the bible or the constitution people read it think and think they get it but use it to justify whatever point they're trying to make at the time. Which brings up my unpopular opinion that I came here for. I think people are suffering from "Deconstruction fatigue" you can only go so far into the deppressoverse before you WANT something classic and bright. You don't have to break your arm punching Cthulhu every story and its a goo time for that.

I know I am.

Peace

[Alex_Of_X]

No harm, no foul! I agree with a lot of your stuff, too. Especially:

The other part? The "Solo arc" of the heroes journey... fam. . . Its a cycle. It doesn't needlessly end in death but it does start in the "ordinary world" so I'm not sure how much "ends in community" really manifests in the stories.

100% this. Which is why I get kinda irked when folks wish for fundamental, can't-take-it-back changes to characters (Kids, Marriages, Retirements). Like, yeah, Batman's gonna be a loner and Spidey will be out of a job\single sometimes. That's how we can keep reading them for 80+ more years.

So yeah. Think we're more or less on the same page here.

[Alex_Of_X]

No Boruto would better if Naruto came to still fighting madara.

I take everything back, and I'm about to throw hands. Don't you take "Dead-beat dad Naruto" from me!

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I don't mind legacy characters but a more distinct design and powerset would help them stand out. Giving them a title that isn't a numeral would be great. I grew up with shonen anime so a team of hulks, speedsters, spiders, etc wouldnt appeal for long. I rather get more characters like Blindspot than Spider-Man II. The former stands out more than the latter.

They also suffer from being seen as the understudy but that's more of a problem of worldbuilding, how to balance a cast etc. Marvel and DC tend to flood the market with Peter Parker and Bruce Wayne solos that take place at the same time etc. Most of those could be retooled around someone else. But that's an oversaturation issue.

[Midnight_v]

I take everything back, and I'm about to throw hands. Don't you take "Dead-beat dad Naruto" from me!

Oof. I'm sorry _X, but boy do I got some bad news for you. . . https://www.youtube.com/shorts/UClBJKR9d_U


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxP2sDp0EKs

Boruto. All of it. Nothing more than an Infinite Tsukuyomi being played out for the viewer.

[PCN24454]

I find the spin-off heroes to be boring simply because they're just more of the same with some slight variation.

Compare modern Spider-man events to more classic events like Maximum Carnage or Revenge of the Sinister Six.

Right now if something major goes down in the Spider-books, Spider-man will be there, and the other spider-man will be there, and Spider-girl will be there, and the other spider-girl, and the other other spider-girl etc.

Look at the older books, Spider-man has to gather his group other from people like Morbius, Nova, Solo, Deathlok, Firestar, and the Hulk. There's a lot more variation both in terms of personality, powers, and visuals.

If they have to have the spin-off characters, they could at least given them their own names.

I always felt like that was a weakness of Spidey books because it just dilutes the brand.

I’d much rather Spidey team up with other Spider-Man characters than the greater Marvel Universe.

[Alex_Of_X]

Oof. I'm sorry _X, but boy do I got some bad news for you. . . https://www.youtube.com/shorts/UClBJKR9d_U


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxP2sDp0EKs

Boruto. All of it. Nothing more than an Infinite Tsukuyomi being played out for the viewer.

Lmao this is awesome, actually.

Idk the manga is real good! All killer, no filler. Dunno how they managed to milk 250+ anime episodes out of it though