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  1. #31
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    There need to be more marvel books that make it easier for new readers to jump in. Character personalities completely changing because of something that happened in another book makes for an awful narrative unless you read both, and if you follow that web through the marvel universe, it basically necessitates either being a hardcore fan or giving up on trying to understand comics altogether.

    I hate anything in comics where the explanation is "magic" or "mystical" without it being spun as technology too advanced for us to understand.

    Comic book writers should just stop trying to kill characters when they know someone, if not them, is just going to bring them back eventually. It ruins the impact when you go read the original story wherein they died.

    On the ultimate side specifically, I think Ultimatum was a godsend, and did wonders for making that line truly unique. I hated the pattern of "616 villian, but then sort of different." The post-ultimatum world truly made two separate, unique universes with their own stories to tell. If killing off half the characters is what it took, then thats what it took.

  2. #32
    Mighty Member jphamlore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klefmung View Post
    There need to be more marvel books that make it easier for new readers to jump in. Character personalities completely changing because of something that happened in another book makes for an awful narrative unless you read both, and if you follow that web through the marvel universe, it basically necessitates either being a hardcore fan or giving up on trying to understand comics altogether.

    I hate anything in comics where the explanation is "magic" or "mystical" without it being spun as technology too advanced for us to understand.

    Comic book writers should just stop trying to kill characters when they know someone, if not them, is just going to bring them back eventually. It ruins the impact when you go read the original story wherein they died.

    On the ultimate side specifically, I think Ultimatum was a godsend, and did wonders for making that line truly unique. I hated the pattern of "616 villian, but then sort of different." The post-ultimatum world truly made two separate, unique universes with their own stories to tell. If killing off half the characters is what it took, then thats what it took.
    This might get even worse as Marvel tries to sell as many as possible on subscriptions to Marvel Unlimited.

  3. #33
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    I mean, I'm not 100% against the complicated tapestry. I just think Marvel needs a line of books designed to each individually be easy jumping on points, so they can ease their way into the tapestry. A gateway drug, I guess.

  4. #34
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    Oh, I also forgot one. Kraven the Hunter is a really really lame villain.

  5. #35
    Brought to you by CarlsJr SickAlice's Avatar
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    All right I'll put a toe in the shallow end. You all might want to make sure your seated for this.

    - I really enjoyed the Daredevil and Elektra movies. I also like the Thomas Jane Punisher movie a lot and thought and it was my favorite of any made.

    * unfolds umbrella and holds it over face *
    I make love, you make me sick.

  6. #36
    Mighty Member jphamlore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SickAlice View Post
    All right I'll put a toe in the shallow end. You all might want to make sure your seated for this.

    - I really enjoyed the Daredevil and Elektra movies. I also like the Thomas Jane Punisher movie a lot and thought and it was my favorite of any made.

    * unfolds umbrella and holds it over face *
    I liked the Punisher movie starring Dolph Lundgren, for what it was at the time.

  7. #37
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Acro View Post
    I don't think that opinion is in any way unpopular or controversial. I'd say the the opposite opinion is almost if not entirely nonexistent.
    You could be right. That wasn't the impression I got when this came, but certainly this view conflicted with Marvels view, but I take your point.

  8. #38
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    The one where he was a pimp or something? The one even Remender couldn't let stand because it was so racist?
    How did Remender retcon Sam was a pimp?

  9. #39
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THANOSRULES View Post
    Marvel mismanaged :

    The Giffen DnA cosmic era- Should have been pushed better by marvel and more talent should have been retained.
    Young Avengers..Heinberg's series was great, but the show needed to roll on without him. It derailed everything by waiting to do Children's Crusade.
    New Warriors..I think killing them off in Civil permanently soured teen heros. It needs to be undone on a big stage.
    Avengers: The Initiative: this book should still be going today.

    I don't know if this is controversial but what happened to the Ultimate Universe...how the line imploded, how we never got the great Ultimate V 616 crossover that would have been bigger than Civil War..It really bothers me how it all went down. I honestly think folks should have been canned for this, and the folks responsible actually seem to have gotten promoted?
    I was unconcerned the NW's were maligned until that CW trade came out and I saw how proficient they were in the TV series. Now, I think the governments owes them an apology and to recompense Speedball.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    How did Remender retcon Sam was a pimp?
    Remender retconned the retcon.

    A couple years after Sam was first introduced, it was "revealed" that he was a criminal named "Snap" Wilson, and the Red Skull used the Cosmic Cube to turn him into a good person who could befriend Captain America. It was insulting and offensive and just so damned stupid.

    Remender recently had Sam say he was never "Snap" Wilson, and that the whole thing was just what racists were projecting onto him because it was what they expected of a black man. It was actually a really cool moment.

  11. #41
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    * The Dark Ages of Comics where not the 1990's, but from Late 2004 threw 2012 during the Famed Heroes vs. Heroes and Schism Era!
    * I don't Believe in Hating Hero Characters in any Form; but not being interested, bored or just not liking some make Sense!
    * I Really Like Rogue as an Avenger and an X-Man!
    * Death has become Boring, a Bad Plot Surprise Ploy and near meaningless since their is always a way to Comeback!
    * Scarlet Witch was a Target and Victim of one of the Worst Character Assassinations in the most Lazies of Ways I have ever Seen! It Ignored over 15 Years of Character Development and just ignored it did not happen!
    * Scott Summers is Not Evil and was Misused in AvX!
    * Possession is Possession!
    * Mind Control is Mind Control!
    * Every character can and should come back from Bad Story Writing and Usage!
    * All the Build Up for Hope Summers over the Years was Completely Botched and Wasted in AvX!
    * SpiderMan 3 was Not That Bad of a Movie, I Enjoyed it, it just Wasted Venom's Use the Most!
    * Avengers and X-Men Divides of the teams should not exist in a shared universe!
    * I enjoyed AvX, But allot of Heroes where really OOC, Especially Captain America and Cyclops!
    * While it is good to engross in all dialogue of a Story; Bad Ideas, Mis-staments and Holes Happen and if forgotten by future stories should be seen as such!
    * Recons are a Double Edge Sword, but a Necessary to Save Characters and Stories form Bad Choices!
    * All Heroes and Their Fandom's should have Equal Rights in being Respected for who the Fan Likes!
    * The 1990's where Extreme and Gimmicky, but not as bad at times as it gets blamed for being!
    * Heroes vs. Heroes was one of the worst ideas to Befall Marvel and all comics in general!
    * The Schism in X-Men Needs to End!
    * Villains should be Villains, not replaced by Schisms, Family/Friend Feuds or Heroes vs. Heroes!
    * It does Fall Victim to plot holes and early bad writing, but Uncanny Avengers is a Fun and Exiting Book! It is a Good Read!
    Every character should come back from bad story writing and usage

    Pym should be redeemed and made an Avenger. Retcon out the slap. It never happened.
    Same goes for Scarlet Witch. Retcon out Avengers Disassembled, and HoM. They weren't her, they were Doom.

    I know why Marvel does things like One More Day, Sins Past, the Pym slap, Avengers Disassembled, because they think soiling a character makes them more interesting, and there is some evidence that controversy sells, so Marvel will stick with the bed they make for themselves. There is more story opportunity by breaking a few eggs, and making the MU more like the real world instead of keeping the world vanilla to their detriment. It just doesn't reduce the rage affecting the readership that it causes knowing this.

  12. #42
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    Remender retconned the retcon.

    A couple years after Sam was first introduced, it was "revealed" that he was a criminal named "Snap" Wilson, and the Red Skull used the Cosmic Cube to turn him into a good person who could befriend Captain America. It was insulting and offensive and just so damned stupid.

    Remender recently had Sam say he was never "Snap" Wilson, and that the whole thing was just what racists were projecting onto him because it was what they expected of a black man. It was actually a really cool moment.
    Thanks. That sounds great, but what book was that in?

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    Every character should come back from bad story writing and usage

    Pym should be redeemed and made an Avenger. Retcon out the slap. It never happened.
    Same goes for Scarlet Witch. Retcon out Avengers Disassembled, and HoM. They weren't her, they were Doom.

    I know why Marvel does things like One More Day, Sins Past, the Pym slap, Avengers Disassembled, because they think soiling a character makes them more interesting, and there is some evidence that controversy sells, so Marvel will stick with the bed they make for themselves. There is more story opportunity by breaking a few eggs, and making the MU more like the real world instead of keeping the world vanilla to their detriment. It just doesn't reduce the rage affecting the readership that it causes knowing this.
    There's no need to retcon out Pym slapping Jan, and in fact, I think it would be a terrible idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    Thanks. That sounds great, but what book was that in?
    All-New Captain America. I want to say issue #3? Maybe #4?

  14. #44
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    There's no need to retcon out Pym slapping Jan, and in fact, I think it would be a terrible idea.


    All-New Captain America. I want to say issue #3? Maybe #4?
    Thanks again.

  15. #45
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    IMO What happened in HoM when Wanda said "No More Mutants" does not constitute genocide. It was a rewrite of reality with some peculiarly selective outcomes cherrypicked by the writer. A reboot or reality rewrite should simply have given those with the mutant gene a different reality where they were not born a mutant. Because that's usually how these things work. Typically, they wouldn't even have memories of being a mutant in the first place.

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