not-a-comics-reader needs help with the context of "The Circle"

[John A]

Hi. I'm hoping to find someone patient enough to explain this to someone who doesn't know comic books. A few years ago I picked up three... I don't know what the term is for the concatenation of single issues bound into a single volume of 3-4 episodes. But anyway: I bought "Love and Murder" (2007 #6-10), "The Circle" (2008 #14-19), and "Warkiller" (2009-2010 #34-39).

I liked the writing and character development (and loved the artwork) in all of them, and I recently became curious to plug the holes in the storyline and see the whole context. But I don't understand what I'm finding.

First... Am I supposed to understand that #1 is the same story as #40? I'm reading a review right now of "Rise of the Olympian" and I don't get it at all. When I first read them, the second two (by Simone) seemed linked to each other but not to the first (by Picoult). Now I'm wondering if their number sequence means there's supposed to be a connection. (I haven't had time to read them again since I found them in a box, so I might be hazy on the details.) And I know the New 52 started over with #1 and so did Rebirth, so are these three books even in the same sequence? Fans seem to refer to issue numbers as though that's all the identification an issue needs, but I find it confusing.

Add to that, the face that I went looking for them in the first place because I'd read an interview with Simone that really grabbed my attention. My sense was that fans really liked her... but now I'm reading reviews of "Rise of the Olympian" and they seem universally flat. If that's how she was received in the beginning, what was the raving about? I think "The Circle" and "Warkiller" absolutely delivered - but are they not the continuation of "Rise of the Olympian" and ultimately of "Love and Murder"?

And if the story didn't start with #1 by Picoult or whomever.... where DID it start and why are they numbered this way? And does the "Love and Murder" story continue before or after the volume I have?

Please bear in mind, I'm not asking for plot details. I'm asking how to find the intervening issues so I can read them myself. Unless the intervening issues are completely unrelated arcs and I've already got the whole picture.

Thanks... I think... I hope my explanation makes more sense to you than it does to me... lol

[Frank]

So, those three trades are all of the same volume: Volume 3.

Picoult was on her first foray into comics with Love & Murder, and it was always meant to be a single arc. In between her last issue (#10) and Simone's first issue (#14) are three fill-in issues by J. Torres that tie into the ghastly crossover event "Amazons Attack." I don't know if those issues have been collected anywhere - if they have been collected, I suspect it'd be in the Amazons Attack collected trade paperback, but I don't own it and can't confirm. If they aren't collected with that trade, I'm sure the three issues are cheap, possibly in a dollar bin at your local comic store.

I believe all of Simone's run has been collected, so to fill in the middle issues, you just need to find the other trades.

The first five issues (and a special "annual") of the Volume 3 series are written by Robert Heinberg with art by the stellar Dodson team. Honestly, there's a weird kind of disconnect with WW around this time. The Volume 2 series ended with Greg Rucka's run and the DC crossover event "Infinite Crisis," and the Heinberg "run" was supposed to redefine WW, but due to editorially-mandated changes from fan-blowback and Heinberg's TV-writing schedule on Gray's Anatomy, the "run" was plagued with significant delays and weird changes. Then, Picoult was always intended to be a 5-issue stint, and was followed by the three Torres fill-in issues. Those three years of WW were a bit discombobulated, and while not everyone loves Simone's run, it was nice to have stability with decent writing and building stories on long-term plans.

Anyway, the Heinberg "run" is collected, as is most of, if not all, Simone's run.

After Simone, numbering becomes wonky again, as DC restored the title to what it's original numbering (#600) would be if the first Volume had never ended, and the title stayed this way for about a year through a sort of Elseworlds-ish story by J. Michael Straczynski & Phil Hester. These issues are collected in trade paperback, and opinions of their quality vary. Then, the New 52 happens, and Volume 4 begins with the Brian Azzarello/Cliff Chiang run, all of which, I believe, is collected in trade paperback.

Anyway, now we're in Volume 5 with Rucka/Scott/Sharp and back to a new #1! It's all a little cray. :-)

[RealWonderman]

I don't know if this will help, but the order of the sequence of the Trade Paperback (TPB) books (concatenation of single issues bound into a single volume) for that Era...Volume 3 I think...was:

Who is Wonder Woman? (Heinberg) 1-4, Annual 1
Love and Murder (Piccoult) 6-10
(Not in TPB, tie in issues to Amazons Attack: Hubris Part 1, 11 and Part 2, 12, Mothers and Daughters 13 (Torres)
The Circle (Simone) 14-19
Ends of the Earth (Simone) 20-25
Rise of the Olympian (Simone) 26-33
Warkiller (Simone) 34(-35 Birds of Paradise)-39
Contagion (Simone) 40-44, and 600 falls in line with these.

It's worth noting, there was some serious editorial interference toward the middle end of Simone's run. It ruined a lot of her plans, and story lines...and one major Villain.

[John A]

That is exactly the information I needed, Wonderman. The more I study the two replies together, the more sense they each make to me. Thank you both very much.

So thank God all of THAT isn't confusing enough! Out of curiosity, are all DC's titles this schizophrenic?

Here are some follow-up questions. So you're telling me that Rise of the Olympian comes AFTER The Circle. Hmmm... for some reason I had it in mind that the "Olympian" referred to Diana. Am I to understand, Frank, that Torres's issues began with the Love and Murder story and his events gave a starting point for The Circle? Or are they three completely independent plots?

I'm afraid I don't quite know what a "crossover event" is... or an "annual." May I ask you to elaborate, please?

What was the deal with Birds of Paradise? Why was it excluded from the TPB?

What's the significance of the number 600? I didn't quite get that...

I really do like Dodson's art, so maybe I'll look for Heinberg even if it's not the same plot. What else did that team illustrate, other than WW? Does anyone know offhand?

I'm also rather embarrassed to see that my wonky keyboard did its thing again in my OP: "the face that I went looking for them in the first place because..." lol... sometimes my cursor jumps all over while I'm typing and deleting (editing). I was rephrasing and "first place" became "face."

[Darius]

Perhaps a bit of vocabulary might help you sort out some of the confusion.

Comics tend to break down into 3 types of "units"
Issue ... Exactly like it sounds a single issue of a comic
Arc ... Typically a collection of sequential issues that tell a single longer story (I.e. The Cirle is an arc containing issues 14-19)
Run ... Typically the entire work of a single writer comprised of several Arcs (I.e. Simone's run contained both The Cirle and Rise of the Olympian

Not all new Runs begin with a new issue #1 as they tend to reserve that privilege for when major events happen across the DC Universe (thus New 52 and Rebirth each started with a #1 issue, but the Finch Run did not as it was still within the New 52)

This brings us to the concepts of cross overs. These crop up every few months and usually have an origin point with a major comic such as Superman, Batman or Justice League and normally override or interrupt whatever might be happening in the various comics they encompass so once in awhile you'll see that an issue (or several) of WW will seem out of sync with the Arc or Run in which it would have normally appeared (so you suddenly have several issues of Superman Doomed interrupting SM/WW or a few issues of Amazons Attack in place of issues that might have otherwise been a bridge between two Arcs or Runs. Most crossovers require you to read issues of various comics to follow the entire story so you'd need to pick up JL, SM, BM and WW issues to see the entire crossover unfold.

Last there are eras of comics typically broken down as Golden Age (approx 1938-1948) these were the first Super Hero comics where the original creators wrote and edited their characters fairly independently and DC was still being created out of several companies.

Next came the Silver Age (approx 1950-1975) ... Comics went through a lot of change and consolidation at this point so many characters changed dramatically and many new versions and new characters started cropping up to replace failed characters.

After that we got the Bronze Age (1975-1985) ... Seems like at this time comics started to really try and clean up the shared universe concept and focus on "continuity" (I.e. The concept that a characters actions in one comic were valid throughout the entire DC universe, so if WW beat Lex Luthor in her solo title that feat became real in JL or in SM).

This led to DC creating the first major line-wide reboot in the form of Crisis on Infinite Earths. Similar to New 52 this DC wide event pretty much ended all previous versions of all pre-existing characters and gave us a whole new set of #1 issues which universally altered the origins and background of pretty much all of the existing characters. Effectively giving DC a clean slate to start with for its continuity (which had become a giant mess). The Post-Crisis era has several sub-level eras, each taking place after another major DC-wide event (infinite Crisis, Final Crisis and Flashpoint) and each starting with new #1 issues with at least some characters titles this era finally sputtered to an end when DC hit reset again in 2011 to create N52 and now Rebirth.

I hope this helps you manage why sometimes issue #26 and issue #40 don't relate to one another at all ... If issue 26 was from a different era or sub era than issue 40 there would be little in common. Similarly of they came from different Arcs or Runs they may not have a ton in common either because comics aren't always directly linear in their story telling and you might encounter moments in issues that are akin to flashbacks from previous Arcs or Runs or might even be alluding to a future event that the writer never got around to before leaving the title.

[John A]

Yes, Darius! Thank you for the additional input. The other replies are even clearer now. You know, I remember as a very young kid in the early 70s, watching Superfriends on Saturday mornings and immersed in MEGO figures and George Reeves and Adam West reruns and Lynda Carter, one day I discovered a single Justice Society issue from the Golden Age. They weren't calling it that at the time probably, but I knew intuitively it was from "the old days." I don't know whose it was or where it came from, but I remember finding it in our laundry room! lol (oh! just realized that places it around 1976 so I was around 7)... and I never forgot it hinting at some of the origin stories (I remember a "Eureka!" moment reading the Green Lantern connection with the railroad). It all seemed very Arthurian and noble to me, but that was the last comic I ever read until Dark Knight Returns.

I'm starting to get the sense that I'm going to be a bit disappointed when I track down the titles that Wonderman provided. The Circle was a great story, but it was only 5 issues. If every 6th issue starts with Monty Python's "And now for something completely different..." then I'm not going to get the degree of continuity I was hoping for. My sense of "story" was shaped more by novels and television series. I like the long view of plot and character development. I think I'm hearing that the story in The Circle ended with issue #19, and that's a terrible shame. But I might find something else I like, so that's ok. The explanations you've all given help shape my expectations. I'm grateful for the education!

[Darius]

No problem... You are correct that the Circel largely ends with issue #19, it was written to be a revision of WW's origin (the Perez one from 1987). If you like the longer stories you might want to give Earth One WW by Morrison a shot, it's a graphic novel and is about 80-pages. Also you can find most of the work from 1987-2011 collected in various omnibus editions. You might enjoy George Perez work as it's the base material Simone worked off of.

To be clear the various eras (at least post Crisis 1987) are all rooted in the same place, but the various writers all seemed to want to make their own stamp on the character so she went through a lot of twists and turns. I believe ere are 3 different #1 issue restarting points that are referred to as "Volume 1" Perez-2006 that was about 250+ issues across maybe 4-5 different writers. "Volume 2" started with the Arc Who is Wonder Woman " and ran through 4-5 writers and about 100 or so issues the New 52 started in 2011 and hit 52 issues with 2 writers ... Now we have Rebirth being started off by Rucka who wrote at the very end of Volume 1 ... Hope this helps!!

[Largo161]

I'm slightly confused now. Darius, you refer to Heinberg's "Who Is WW?" as the beginning of Vol 2, but upthread, Frank and Wonderman call it Vol 3...??

[borntohula]

If you're interested in a longer Wonder Woman story, then I could recommend Brian Azzarello (who -btw- is a pal of Gail Simones) and Cliff Chiang's.

Draws heavy from greek myth (the amazons are -early on- very much from the myth) and pulp. Lots of wordplay and hidden meaning. Has a nice Jack Kirby feel to it. Diana's big heart is both her biggest strength and weakness. She's as much of a loving reformer as warrior. The gods all have personalities turned up to 11 and there's a twist of irony to everything that happens. Big wide story with lots of character moments and progression.

Each issue acts like a chapter. Each 2 arcs forming up an act, or -if it was tv- "season".

Volume 1-2 Blood and Guts (collects New 52: Wonder Woman #1-12)
--Zeus goes missing and Diana is on a mission protecting a woman named Zola.

Volume 3-4 Iron and War (Collects 0, 13-23)
--Heaven is under a new rule, and the God of War makes a play/move.

Volume 5-6 Flesh and Bones (First born, 24-35, Secret origin)
--There's a war in heaven. Big reveals. Story reaches a full circle.

A bit like Lord of the ring Fellowship of the ring : The two towers : Return of the king and Star Wars A new hope : Empire strikes back : Return of the Jedi.

Oh, and it's also a story which people seem to either really like (which most do) or really dislike. So, why not have a look at it.

[Darius]

I'm slightly confused now. Darius, you refer to Heinberg's "Who Is WW?" as the beginning of Vol 2, but upthread, Frank and Wonderman call it Vol 3...??

I could be wrong, but it might also depend on how you classify ... Perez would be Vol 1 Post-Crisis which would make Heinberg the first #1 issue of WW since Perez, thus Vol 2 of Post-Crisis, but if you include Pre-Crisis he would be Vol 3 ... Or I might have something wrong as well!

[Doctor Bifrost]

I thought "The Circle" was brilliant work, especially in regards to characterization, and the representation of different viewpoints among the Amazons - the way The Circle themselves start out thinking they are desperately trying to save Amazon civilization, but - due to isolation and denial - wind up becoming more "villainous."

However, there was one aspect that always seemed off to me: Hippolyta and the Amazons are famous for trying to reform even their most dangerous enemies, including Nazi baronesses, supervillains, and immortal sorceresses. The even have (or used to have) an entire island dedicated to this purpose. The idea that they would take the four members of the Circle and just stick them into four separate walled-up holes in the ground, in solitary confinement, to be talked to once a year, seemed a little out of character. We didn't even get a scene where they got taken out, shown Diana, and told "look, she's turning out great!" No attempts were made to rehabilitate them, change their minds, or show them the errors of their ways.

When you add to that the fact that, between the time they were imprisoned and the time they resurfaced, the island of Themysicra was utterly destroyed once or twice, it seemed even stranger.

I would have preferred to see the four of them escape into an alternate realm after the first battle; get trapped there for a a few decades; and then find their way back.

But that's just me.

In Gail Simone's subsequent issues, there is a storyline in which we see a young Hippolyta - dressed in Greek-looking clothes - having her older sister (who I believe we never heard of before) taken by aliens. I never knew if this was meant to be a history-changing retcon, a mystery to be reconciled, a false memory, or something else - but I was intrigued. Unfortunately they changed writers and storylines before this enigma was ever resolved.

[RealWonderman]

I could be wrong, but it might also depend on how you classify ... Perez would be Vol 1 Post-Crisis which would make Heinberg the first #1 issue of WW since Perez, thus Vol 2 of Post-Crisis, but if you include Pre-Crisis he would be Vol 3 ... Or I might have something wrong as well!

I would tend to think along the same lines, but technically, the Volumes encompass the entire history...Vol 1 was 1942-1986, Volume 2 1987-2006, and Volume 3 refers to June of 2006, starting one year after the events of Infinite Crisis.

I would recommend the Perez run...start with the trade paper back (TPB) "Gods and Mortals"...it's beautiful, and a great story!