H'el vs Thanos

[master of read]

superman can fly through black holes, bench the earth, stop braniacs mother ship from descending at speed ( with help)

Anyone one shotting that guy, however briefly, should be at least reasonably above surfer level

but not on thanos' level.

[Siriel]

feats to back up both of those claims?

I don't particularly feel like commenting on the fight, but it's this thing where both Galactus and Odin took down Thanos with relatively little effort, what with Galactus blasting him once and casually noting that his shields were pretty impressive, while Odin meanwhile made no real attempt to kill him to the point of going "Do you yield?" afterward.

You don't particularly need to be on the level of people who casually stomp Thanos to hurt Thanos.

[Marvel-Studios Rep]

Doesn't look lie H'el time dumped anyone...besides himself. Oh well.

[Pendaran]

I don't particularly feel like commenting on the fight, but it's this thing where both Galactus and Odin took down Thanos with relatively little effort, what with Galactus blasting him once and casually noting that his shields were pretty impressive, while Odin meanwhile made no real attempt to kill him to the point of going "Do you yield?" afterward.

You don't particularly need to be on the level of people who casually stomp Thanos to hurt Thanos.

Runner hurt the guy. I'm pretty comfortable with him being the "you must be this tall to ride". Granted the Runner treated the Surfer's efforts to fight him like they were an adorable suggestion, but hey, so did Thanos.

[The Dork Knight]

but not on thanos' level.

LOL sorry if i sound like blue beetle here going " ONE PUNCH! ONE PUNCH!" ....but it was one punch

Even Thanos himself takes 7 to 8 blows to take down Surfer and 3 blows to take down Beta Ray Bill and i would honestly say that superman is stronger than Bill

Thor with the power gem hurt him. But even Thor with the gen reuqired more than one hit to take down the likes of surfer ( and that too not for long)

Thanos blew up a planet as the side effect of his fight. But he's had hundreds of appearances for him to get these feats. Hel has had 5 or 6 appearances or something like that. In them, he's taking out superman 3 times at least briefly with a SINGLE hit

Superman being someone who benches the planet, and punches hard enough to shake it, is busting one as a side effect really that far beyond someone one shotting the guy? I think not

You posted a scan of thanos slapping drax and hulk but you forgot to add the follow up where they remain standing on their feet

You claim Thanos can take Odin's blasts on a day he is one shotting surfer. That's fine but He WAS hurt by the blast

So to me, if He'l can produce the same effect vs superman, he is at least in the same league as Odin's " Thanos hurting, surfer one shotting" blast

The only thing that needs to be established is whether He'l one shotting superman is legit

Because otherwise, it just seems illogical to me that someone who can one shot superman, can't even make Thanos feel his blows, especially at super speed

[Pendaran]

You posted a scan of thanos slapping drax and hulk but you forgot to add the follow up where they remain standing on their feet

So, the part where his open handed one arc slap all the same flung them back and off it becomes unimpressive? They recovered their footing, sure. Doesn't change what happened.

On another occasion, but for a save from Quasar, Thanos one hand overpowered the Thing and Hulk both and was about to smash their heads together.

Thanos blew up a planet as the side effect of his fight.

That was a full power up ago for the guy.

But he's had hundreds of appearances for him to get these feats.

Actually that one came from basically the beginning of his career. Possibly from his first appearance, though I can't recall the chronology.

You claim Thanos can take Odin's blasts on a day he is one shotting surfer. That's fine but He WAS hurt by the blast

Yes. He also waded right through a blast as it was pouring out over a sustained period to grapple with Odin, would be the point. You'd have to argue that a blitz will do more damage than a sustained continuous beam from Odin that Thanos is wading through, to take him out before he can do anything to H'el.

So to me, if He'l can produce the same effect vs superman, he is at least in the same league as Odin's " Thanos hurting, surfer one shotting" blast

Not from what people have been posting in this thread. And again, Thanos waded through a sustained blast, you talk like Odin zotzed him once.

Even Thanos himself takes 7 to 8 blows to take down Surfer

To be accurate, what Thanos did was take the Surfer to the point where he hovered between life and death and kept him in that state, that's a bit more than "taking him down".

Because otherwise, it just seems illogical to me that someone who can one shot superman, can't even make Thanos feel his blows, especially at super speed

Let's say he could. Are you arguing he will take Thanos out before Thanos can manage to get any of his powers off? Telepathy, energy manipulation, what all have you.

Dude has had a singularity implode on him that was have an effect across a few light years and survived.

[master of read]

honestly, thanos could just stand there and let h'el wail on him and it wouldn't do much while he could do any of the many things he could do to the poor kid.

[Pendaran]

honestly, thanos could just stand there and let h'el wail on him and it wouldn't do much while he could do any of the many things he could do to the poor kid.

Well, if H'el legitimately one shot KO'd nu Supes, it largely depends what guy's durability showings have amounted to, nuClark that is, but from the posts in the thread, the one shotting thing has been called into question.

[master of read]

Well, if H'el legitimately one shot KO'd nu Supes, it largely depends what guy's durability showings have amounted to, nuClark that is, but from the posts in the thread, the one shotting thing has been called into question.

according to dark, he didn't so much one shot supes than he just caught him off guard and even then, it took a few blows to put him down. even if he did, considering everything else that has been shown, it would kinda inconsistent with the other fights h'el had with clark.

[big_adventure]

Well, if H'el legitimately one shot KO'd nu Supes, it largely depends what guy's durability showings have amounted to, nuClark that is, but from the posts in the thread, the one shotting thing has been called into question.

Also, there is a relatively fair chance that NuSupes has the opposite "problem" as Thanos - namely that NuSupes is stronger than he is durable, based on things he's been hurt by. Thanos is strong as all hell (no pun there), but still much more durable than he is strong. Even if you want to say that H'el is as physically strong as NuSupes (despite lacking NuSupes' chest-week workout routine feat), that's just nowhere near what it would take to down Thanos. Would he feel it? Sure. But he'd just keep right on getting up, or just wading on through it - such as what he did with Odin.

[The Dork Knight]

So, the part where his open handed one arc slap all the same flung them back and off it becomes unimpressive? They recovered their footing, sure. Doesn't change what happened.

On another occasion, but for a save from Quasar, Thanos one hand overpowered the Thing and Hulk both and was about to smash their heads together.



That was a full power up ago for the guy.



Actually that one came from basically the beginning of his career. Possibly from his first appearance, though I can't recall the chronology.



Yes. He also waded right through a blast as it was pouring out over a sustained period to grapple with Odin, would be the point. You'd have to argue that a blitz will do more damage than a sustained continuous beam from Odin that Thanos is wading through, to take him out before he can do anything to H'el.



Not from what people have been posting in this thread. And again, Thanos waded through a sustained blast, you talk like Odin zotzed him once.



To be accurate, what Thanos did was take the Surfer to the point where he hovered between life and death and kept him in that state, that's a bit more than "taking him down".



Let's say he could. Are you arguing he will take Thanos out before Thanos can manage to get any of his powers off? Telepathy, energy manipulation, what all have you.

Dude has had a singularity implode on him that was have an effect across a few light years and survived.

When did I say it was not impressive? it was more a response to what I thought master of read was implying, that Thanos one shotted them there. He didn't. And as I recall not even in the Quasar incident that you mentioned

I know that came from iron man 50 or something. Thats not what i was saying there. What i was actually saying was that thats the one time Thanos busted a planet in what, 300 appearances? Then he's beaten class 100s what 10 times? 20?

And there are as many issues of Thanos just sitting about plotting on how best to get into Deaths pants, with no combat worthy feats whatsoever

Hel has had 7 appearances or something. In that time he doesn't spend all his time fighting people or getting feats. Hes just chatting in one page, making out with Supergirl in another


What im saying is that, it takes a lot of appearances to build up a decent collection of feats. He'l hasn't had lots of appearances . If we were to use the Thanos from the iron man comic say , he would have lost to he'l via TP

He might go the Thanos way after this arc( consistent high end feats ) or he might go the DC villain way ( Zoom, Despero, Larfleeze) with increasingly poor showing after the initial "big" showings ( more likely)

As it is , right now, based on what we have, it isn't beyond the realm of possibility for hel to blow up the planet as a side effect like thanos did. That's all I'm saying

the point is that Odin was hurting him with that level of power, and he kept it up Thanos would have gone down eventually. maybe in a day, maybe in a year.thanos' durability is not infinite

something that hurts him would eventually take him down. which is the scenario here with hel and his superspeed. Unless thanos does something about it of course

And why do you think hel is going to hit him just once with a superman one shotting punch? he's going to keep hitting him for days if thats what it takes. Unless thanos does something about it

Sure thanos nearly killed surfer but that does not necessarily mean he could have been knocked out by briefly by a single blow. What I'm trying to say is, Thanos killing surfer with 7 blows and He'l knocking out superman with one, are pretty comparable

Oh and while I agree the planet busting feat was a power up ago for Thanos, that remains his best feat ( knocking out drax not just the planet busting) even after his upgrades. so short of speculation we can't assume that Thanos has gotten exponentially stronger since, if we go by feats

what energy manipulation feat are you talking about? Thanos as i recall has no wide range energy attack feats
now as far as matter manipulation goes hel is at least as good a manipulator ( trapping superman and others in a TK field, taking apart superboy)
As for telepathy, correct me if im wrong but Thanos has zero feats of affecting a telepath of any degree. he took over the hulk once and invaded post retcon beyonders mind and mind controlled fallen one, but these are all mentally unstable characters or non telepaths

Hels hardly the greatest telepath ever but he IS a telepath. I don't think Thanos can take him down mentally. nor can hel for that matter. Thanos ' mental RESISTANCE feats are great

So yes I believe it will be a good fight ( thanos will probably still win because of his durability and Hel eventually getting tired enough for thanos to punch him i think) and not the "thanos stomps" everyone is claiming

Edit: the Thanos drax fight seems to be from a captain marvel issue, much later so the point is moot anyway

[The Dork Knight]

Also, there is a relatively fair chance that NuSupes has the opposite "problem" as Thanos - namely that NuSupes is stronger than he is durable, based on things he's been hurt by. Thanos is strong as all hell (no pun there), but still much more durable than he is strong. Even if you want to say that H'el is as physically strong as NuSupes (despite lacking NuSupes' chest-week workout routine feat), that's just nowhere near what it would take to down Thanos. Would he feel it? Sure. But he'd just keep right on getting up, or just wading on through it - such as what he did with Odin.

Ill post scans later of both the Hel vs superman fights and supermans new black hole feats that will make you change your mind

[The Dork Knight]

Oh and as far as the singularity goes, the key word there is Thanos SURVIVED it. we don't know if it knocked him, required him to regenerate or something . we know he was badly hurt by it. Thats all

All these names people keep throwing around, galactus , odin etc, they vary wildly in power levels ( see galactus vs celestials, odin vs celestials)

And they can all hurt him. But thats not the point. the point is we are looking for the lowest amount of power required to hurt Thanos. And that seems to be the " one shot class 100" level. which hel is

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

superman can fly through black holes,

This the Braniac thing you're talking about, yea? There's a few issues with that. Primarily, IIRC, the guy was rather explicitly powered up.

bench the earth,

Neat.

stop braniacs mother ship from descending at speed ( with help)

That isn't a feat one can really go "he's this strong" with given he needed help.

Anyone one shotting that guy, however briefly, should be at least reasonably above surfer level

Surfer > Superman in the durability department. So no, not really.

Ill post scans later of both the Hel vs superman fights and supermans new black hole feats that will make you change your mind

Again, if you're talking about the Braniac "I'm throwing us both into the black hole" feat ... guy was explicitly powered up for that, from what I recall. Like explicitly.

Oh and as far as the singularity goes, the key word there is Thanos SURVIVED it. we don't know if it knocked him, required him to regenerate or something . we know he was badly hurt by it. Thats all

He was a little beat up and bloody, but saying he's badly hurt seems to be some kind of wish fulfillment on your part.

All these names people keep throwing around, galactus , odin etc, they vary wildly in power levels ( see galactus vs celestials, odin vs celestials)

Odin got shit on by Celestials.

Galactus can otherwise shit on Odin, and in previous years rolled around murdering Celestials becuase ... I forget the point of that arc, honestly. Voltron the Mega Celestial was an interesting case but nowhere near the norm.

And they can all hurt him. But thats not the point. the point is we are looking for the lowest amount of power required to hurt Thanos.

Hurting Thanos, and outputting enough damage to drop Thanos are pretty much mutually exclusive unless you're into Skyfather and up, territory. Which is the point, I assume, that you've been attempting to ignore for something like "way too many pages"

And that seems to be the " one shot class 100" level. which hel is

But he's not, and even by your own admission he wasn't one-shotting NuClark. So ... one of these things just doesn't belong here. One of these statements is false.

[byc]

This would be a bad time to bring up Vulko "one-shotted" Superman as well during the Throne of Atlantis.