Avengers 42 *Spoilers*

[Wren]

Still, it's sort of weird that every single planet between Phoenix and Earth just happened to be an evolutionary dead end. Maybe there's a lot of evolutionary dead ends in the universe, but it's still sort of odd.

As far as the rest of the universe being so obsessed with earth... despite how everyone seems to go on and on about how small and primative and insignificant earth is, I'm sure someone will at one point state earth is somehow significant if it hasn't been done so already. There's gotta be SOMETHING about it.

Even the incursions right now seem to really place earth at the heart of the issue for some reason.

It wasn't every single planet. They were taking bets about which planet would bite it next. But yes, apparently the universe has a lot of evolutionary dead ends in it... or the phoenix is really picky.

[XPac]

It wasn't every single planet. They were taking bets about which planet would bite it next. But yes, apparently the universe has a lot of evolutionary dead ends in it... or the phoenix is really picky.

Carol literally said that the Phoenix was destroying EVERY planet between it and earth. Maybe she was using hyperbole or whatever, but that's literally what she said on panel.

[dragonmp93]

Carol literally said that the Phoenix was destroying EVERY planet between it and earth. Maybe she was using hyperbole or whatever, but that's literally what she said on panel.

Well, what i understood is that they were betting on which trayectory the Phoenix would take, and consequently, which planet would be gutted.

And well, that kind of hyperboles are frequent, like when Doctor Strange said that the Scarlet Witch erased the 99.99999 % of the mutants of the Multiverse, or the "revolution led by Scott Summers that would get all the mutants killed."

[Tazpocalapse]

Ok so where is the personification of death in the Multiverse is she/he dead?After watching a beyonder able to kill The Living tribunal i'm thinking if Death is still a entity in the Marvel U, that it would be a target also?

[dragonmp93]

Ok so where is the personification of death in the Multiverse is she/he dead?After watching a beyonder able to kill The Living tribunal i'm thinking if Death is still a entity in the Marvel U, that it would be a target also?

Well, how long i know, she is up to something with Thanos.

[Username taken]

I blame the writers who wanted to make a name for themselves by complicating the Phoenix Force well beyond the reasonable suspension of disbelief.

Quoted for truth.

Some writers have made the PF and everything about it into an incomprehensible mess of retcon upon retcon.

[hawkeyefan]

Still, it's sort of weird that every single planet between Phoenix and Earth just happened to be an evolutionary dead end. Maybe there's a lot of evolutionary dead ends in the universe, but it's still sort of odd.

As far as the rest of the universe being so obsessed with earth... despite how everyone seems to go on and on about how small and primative and insignificant earth is, I'm sure someone will at one point state earth is somehow significant if it hasn't been done so already. There's gotta be SOMETHING about it.

Even the incursions right now seem to really place earth at the heart of the issue for some reason.

Back in the day, Earth was of strategic importance because there was a star gate nearby. One if the things I liked about Infinity was that it seemed like the first story that acknowledged that Earth routinely whoops on everyone else in the galaxy and started having other empires act like that was the case.

Quoted for truth.

Some writers have made the PF and everything about it into an incomprehensible mess of retcon upon retcon.

Honestly, the Phoenix worked best when no one really knew what it was. Once they started trying to explain exactly its role in the universe and then connected it to mutants and all that, it became kind of silly.

[Rosebunse]

Well, how long i know, she is up to something with Thanos.

Well, it's not too confusing. Thanos loves Death, and Death is being threatened by the Beyonders and Rabum Alal to a lesser extent.

[Wren]

The phoenix force has been written into shambles, true... but I totally loved the phoenix corps from Morrison. I thought that was cool. And having that Shi'ar guy (Rachel's BF) have a dad who was a phoenix host. To me those details made it actually seem LESS overly centered on earth and mutants and more something that was truly universal.

I think the mess with Hope, the Lights and Unit's story was really the point where it went way too far. That stuff was just shuffled in for convenience. That and Warsong/Endsong which I thought wasn't as well-thought-out as it should have been.

[dragonmp93]

The phoenix force has been written into shambles, true... but I totally loved the phoenix corps from Morrison. I thought that was cool. And having that Shi'ar guy (Rachel's BF) have a dad who was a phoenix host. To me those details made it actually seem LESS overly centered on earth and mutants and more something that was truly universal.

I think the mess with Hope, the Lights and Unit's story was really the point where it went way too far. That stuff was just shuffled in for convenience. That and Warsong/Endsong which I thought wasn't as well-thought-out as it should have been.

Well, the Phoenix didnt create Hope or the lights; it was more like S.O.S. call for the Phoenix.

And what's wrong with the Phoenix preferring a human over a kree or a shi'ar ?.
Anyways, this thing was created by the same reason of the Children's crusade, to retcon a 10-digits body count.

[XPac]

The phoenix force has been written into shambles, true... but I totally loved the phoenix corps from Morrison. I thought that was cool. And having that Shi'ar guy (Rachel's BF) have a dad who was a phoenix host. To me those details made it actually seem LESS overly centered on earth and mutants and more something that was truly universal.

I think the mess with Hope, the Lights and Unit's story was really the point where it went way too far. That stuff was just shuffled in for convenience. That and Warsong/Endsong which I thought wasn't as well-thought-out as it should have been.

I do think the X books really try to jam the Phoenix into anything they can. They probably should take a nice long break from it for awhile.

[Mark]

I do think the X books really try to jam the Phoenix into anything they can. They probably should take a nice long break from it for awhile.

Well after the reboot they can probably start from scratch. After all the universes go than the writers can follow their own ideas recreating the concepts of the universe and everything else they want. They could make the PF a cute little poodle and the Living Tribunal (and since that thing is no more we should drop the world 'living' from it's name) into a little old lady who walks that poodle through the new time and space.

[Wren]

Well, the Phoenix didnt create Hope or the lights; it was more like S.O.S. call for the Phoenix.

And what's wrong with the Phoenix preferring a human over a kree or a shi'ar ?.
Anyways, this thing was created by the same reason of the Children's crusade, to retcon a 10-digits body count.

How realistic is it that there is a One True Phoenix Host? Across all the multiverse? What happens to universes that don't contain a Jean Grey, or before Jean was born? The phoenix corps fixed that by suggesting there are many hosts that are in a heirarchy, and Jean is just one of the best. I think that still makes her very special.

And the whole "SOS" call thing is exactly what I thought was stupid. It came out of nowhere and it was sooo specific to this particular situation, like the phoenix is a mechanic you dial when the evolution car stalls. I get that they wrote it specifically to help Wanda and give Hope some kind of ending, but I thought for the phoenix it was a stupid story (also for all other characters).

What happened to "it burns away what doesn't work"? I thought that was great. Straight-forward but leaves it to the firebird to say when something "doesn't work" and what "burns away" means.
It leaves a sense of mystery and danger and hope.

[ExodusCloak]

How realistic is it that there is a One True Phoenix Host? Across all the multiverse? What happens to universes that don't contain a Jean Grey, or before Jean was born? The phoenix corps fixed that by suggesting there are many hosts that are in a heirarchy, and Jean is just one of the best. I think that still makes her very special.

And the whole "SOS" call thing is exactly what I thought was stupid. It came out of nowhere and it was sooo specific to this particular situation, like the phoenix is a mechanic you dial when the evolution car stalls. I get that they wrote it specifically to help Wanda and give Hope some kind of ending, but I thought for the phoenix it was a stupid story (also for all other characters).

What happened to "it burns away what doesn't work"? I thought that was great. Straight-forward but leaves it to the firebird to say when something "doesn't work" and what "burns away" means.
It leaves a sense of mystery and danger and hope.

Rook'shir was a Phoenix host so was a firefly. Also the others hosts got murdered by Vulcan. They live in the nexus of all realities and Phoenix Vulcan wiped them out there.

The SOS thing makes sense, the Phoenix being an agent of chance, that has been staple for a while, that's actually the reason why it wiped out the D'Bari because it deemed them an evolutionary dead end hence the line "it burns away what doesn't work."

Also Earth is special, that's always been the case. It's discussed in X-Men Forever and I believe in Evolutionary War.

The Krees big reason for needing the Inhumans is that they also were an evolutionary dead end. They better watch out.

[Wren]

Rook'shir was a Phoenix host so was a firefly. Also the others hosts got murdered by Vulcan. They live in the nexus of all realities and Phoenix Vulcan wiped them out there.

The SOS thing makes sense, the Phoenix being an agent of chance, that has been staple for a while, that's actually the reason why it wiped out the D'Bari because it deemed them an evolutionary dead end hence the line "it burns away what doesn't work."

Also Earth is special, that's always been the case. It's discussed in X-Men Forever and I believe in Evolutionary War.

The Krees big reason for needing the Inhumans is that they also were an evolutionary dead end. They better watch out.

The phoenix actually came for them during AvX-- they were preparing to harness it to fix their evolutionary problems, or something like that. It was in Secret Avengers AvX tie-in (I think? anyway it was with Ms Marvel's and Beast's space team). Captain Mar-Vell I think was hinted to have been revived using the phoenix at that time, but I think it was dropped.

I agree about everything except the SOS thing-- it seems too specific. If the phoenix thinks you need help shouldn't it just come on over, find a host, and fix it? why all this stuff with messiah and lights? it just seemed unnecessarily complicated & silly.

Also is the D'Bari thing is a retcon? in the DPS Jean just accidentally killed them off while eating their sun.