Avengers 42 *Spoilers*

[Rosebunse]

Yep, but then that's always been implicit in the idea that Battleworld is all that's left... only the areas from a reality that go into making up Battleworld get saved, everything else, every region (and planet, and solar system, and galaxy) that doesn't make it to Battleworld is destroyed.

But then wouldn't that mean that the Arc thing is a bad idea unless it's at the Incursion Zone? Something I honestly doubt.

[ZNOP]

I fail to see how does the Phoenix Force fits into Secret Wars/Battle world?

[vitruvian]

But then wouldn't that mean that the Arc thing is a bad idea unless it's at the Incursion Zone? Something I honestly doubt.

That's why they harvested the Living Tribunal's epidermis - so the ark could go into that white space in between universes or realities and keep the people inside it safe. Don't forget, we've also seen that the Builders had a system of structures in between universes, and that the Black Priests are able to maintain their citadel or headquarters out there, and that the new Super-Adaptoids we think evolve into Mapmakers can navigate and survive the white space, and that the Hyperion who's currently an Avenger survived there once his universe was gone until plucked out of it by AIM.... so it's clearly possible to survive in that white void in a variety of ways.

Now, as to whether this ark would ever find a new universe to land in, that's the rub.

[Kirby Krackle]

I fail to see how does the Phoenix Force fits into Secret Wars/Battle world?

It's one of the most powerful cosmic forces in the Marvel universe. Most of the other cosmic forces and concepts are now dead. The Phoenix Force is a pretty big deal.

[Omega Alpha]

I doubt the Phoenix Egg is a real deal, cause it's a question of how he got it.

Well, he was the Phoenix for a little while there.

What? Maybe you should go back and watch The Wire.

McNulty and Bunk's 3 minutes opening only saying the f-word was lifted straight from Macbeth.

[Rosebunse]

That's why they harvested the Living Tribunal's epidermis - so the ark could go into that white space in between universes or realities and keep the people inside it safe. Don't forget, we've also seen that the Builders had a system of structures in between universes, and that the Black Priests are able to maintain their citadel or headquarters out there, and that the new Super-Adaptoids we think evolve into Mapmakers can navigate and survive the white space, and that the Hyperion who's currently an Avenger survived there once his universe was gone until plucked out of it by AIM.... so it's clearly possible to survive in that white void in a variety of ways.

Now, as to whether this ark would ever find a new universe to land in, that's the rub.

There's just a part of me that thinks it's going to fail, and that the survivors are the people who weren't on the arc.

[Darkspellmaster]

Given the fact that the Beyonders or whoever is doing this (assuming it's all the Beyonders and not something else that is using the Beyonders -which at this point wouldn't surprise me) have messed up other plans wouldn't it be likely for them to screw up the P-force and the Ark idea. As others have asked, who picks and chooses who's on the Ark? Val, Reed, T'challa? Is there only going to be two of each? On top of that what of the Inhumans? The other alien species?

This whole battle world reminds me of the chess board that Robinson showed in the Invaders. As if this happened way way way before:


Then there's the fact that you have Black Swan, who we know can and does backstab it seem, making a deal with Namor to survive. Which makes me wonder are we going to have any atlanteans at all? Unless a classified zone is for them. Actually would be kind of cool to have in an area like that a pirate story.

[Strange1]

I have a feeling Ultimate Reed and the Cabal will screw up the Ark which leads to 616 and Ultimateverse sharing space on Battleworld

[Ekie]

You mean T'challa.

lol yes yes. Any scans or details on what this arc is?

[vitruvian]

There's just a part of me that thinks it's going to fail, and that the survivors are the people who weren't on the arc.

Or there are the survivors in Manhattan when 616 and 1610 collide (and possibly at some of the earlier Incursion sites, but we don't know that for sure), and a separate group of survivors in the Ark, and the Ark ends up crash landing elsewhere on Battleworld, far away from the survivors from the 616 universe in the merged Manhattan. That way you can have a group of 616 characters interacting with different 'War Zones' than the ones in Manhattan are adjacent to.

[vitruvian]

Given the fact that the Beyonders or whoever is doing this (assuming it's all the Beyonders and not something else that is using the Beyonders -which at this point wouldn't surprise me) have messed up other plans wouldn't it be likely for them to screw up the P-force and the Ark idea. As others have asked, who picks and chooses who's on the Ark? Val, Reed, T'challa? Is there only going to be two of each? On top of that what of the Inhumans? The other alien species?

The intended size of the thing isn't clear, although Reed saying they need geneticists to make sure of long-term survival suggests he's not thinking it will hold thousands of people, which would be enough for a 'minimum viable population' of human beings (and variants such as mutants who can have kids with the baselines) that could survive for generations without inbreeding and so on being a problem, without any special intervention. So, at a guess, several hundred people, with the best mix of practical and scientific skills (and perhaps powers) they can put together, selected by those who build the thing and choose who to tell about it?

I don't suspect they're thinking of inviting any aliens (at least ones that aren't trusted allies already on Earth) along for the ride, which kind of makes me have more sympathy for the Council's approach to Earth evidently being a threat to the rest of the universe, really... unless perhaps the two play into each other, with the Ark leaving Earth to be destroyed by the galactic empires, and then if the universe manages to survive, they can see how long that lasts.

As for the Beyonders messing things up, they don't seem to have interfered with the Cabal blowing up other Earths so far, nor have we seen them eliminate the Black Priests' stronghold in the white space between panels, I mean universes (heh, they could be said to be living in the gutter and be called guttersnipes as an insult), so I don't know that they're really going around actively and successfully blowing every countermeasure to destruction that anybody uses.

This whole battle world reminds me of the chess board that Robinson showed in the Invaders. As if this happened way way way before:

If it has happened before, that would actually be a good sign in a way... since it would indicate that a universe containing billions of galaxies, each with hundreds of billions of stars, and a multiverse containing countless such universes, can come back into existence and be reborn even after such a catastrophic event, would it not?

Then there's the fact that you have Black Swan, who we know can and does backstab it seem, making a deal with Namor to survive. Which makes me wonder are we going to have any atlanteans at all? Unless a classified zone is for them. Actually would be kind of cool to have in an area like that a pirate story.

What with three quarters of the surface area of Earth being water, I would actually kind of expect that the same proportion of Incursion zones have been ocean as well... eliminating much chance of denizens of those worlds not forewarned and equipped with detection devices even noticing, much less stopping, those Incursions, unless there happened to be a population of Atlanteans in the right part of the ocean. But then, the Atlanteans have often been portrayed as pretty well spread around the oceans, so if it's the Incursion zones that are getting saved and pieced together to make Battleworld, those oceans may well be well stocked with varying versions of the Atlanteans. If they could make common cause together against the surface dwellers... but then of course you probably had alternates where Attuma or Krang or Lemurians or whoever were ruling Atlantis rather than Namor, or where Namor is not inclined to work with a pale copy of himself.

[Rosebunse]

Or there are the survivors in Manhattan when 616 and 1610 collide (and possibly at some of the earlier Incursion sites, but we don't know that for sure), and a separate group of survivors in the Ark, and the Ark ends up crash landing elsewhere on Battleworld, far away from the survivors from the 616 universe in the merged Manhattan. That way you can have a group of 616 characters interacting with different 'War Zones' than the ones in Manhattan are adjacent to.

That sounds fun. And then the group in Manhattan thinks everyone else is dead. Oh, the fun!

But wait...if that's the case...then I guess the Legion of Monsters won't be on the list for the Arc. I just want to see everyone's reactions to not being on the Arc.

[FriendRoss]

They should of homaged dr strangelove cave race a little more when reed and t'challa where discussing the lifeboat


I liked Hickmans guardians voices. Really enjoyed the rocket ending. Already better then the black vortex (or whatever it's called)

[Rosebunse]

They should of homaged dr strangelove cave race a little more when reed and t'challa where discussing the lifeboat


I liked Hickmans guardians voices. Really enjoyed the rocket ending. Already better then the black vortex (or whatever it's called)

I don't think Dr. Strangelove is the tone they want for this.

[Darkspellmaster]

The intended size of the thing isn't clear, although Reed saying they need geneticists to make sure of long-term survival suggests he's not thinking it will hold thousands of people, which would be enough for a 'minimum viable population' of human beings (and variants such as mutants who can have kids with the baselines) that could survive for generations without inbreeding and so on being a problem, without any special intervention. So, at a guess, several hundred people, with the best mix of practical and scientific skills (and perhaps powers) they can put together, selected by those who build the thing and choose who to tell about it?

This is going to cause a major fight because you know people are going to be like "Why does X get to go but Y doesn't" in the main verse. I'm also guessing they're going to go for the youngest of all the members of the world because who better to have kids then those that aren't old already. I'm also assuming artists and the like will be allowed aboard. Actually this sort of reminds me of some of the old Star Wars EU stories where, prior to the prequels, there was a mention and a book surrounding the idea that some of the elder Jedi gathered up the children and the teens and put them on an ark to get as far from the Empire as possible. Nothing ever did come of it, since the Jedi never did find it in that book, but it was out there for other writers to write about if they wanted.

There's also a question of infighting when it comes to deciding who gets to go. Got a bad feeling Tony may help screw this up some how, or Doom may also be planning something.

I don't suspect they're thinking of inviting any aliens (at least ones that aren't trusted allies already on Earth) along for the ride, which kind of makes me have more sympathy for the Council's approach to Earth evidently being a threat to the rest of the universe, really... unless perhaps the two play into each other, with the Ark leaving Earth to be destroyed by the galactic empires, and then if the universe manages to survive, they can see how long that lasts.

Doesn't that mean the like of aliens in most of the marvel universe will be gone? Also do they know that the Living Tribunals skin will work? Or are they just going on the assumptions?

As for the Beyonders messing things up, they don't seem to have interfered with the Cabal blowing up other Earths so far, nor have we seen them eliminate the Black Priests' stronghold in the white space between panels, I mean universes (heh, they could be said to be living in the gutter and be called guttersnipes as an insult), so I don't know that they're really going around actively and successfully blowing every countermeasure to destruction that anybody uses.

But are they not interfering because it meets their needs, and can they actually get to the black priests?

If it has happened before, that would actually be a good sign in a way... since it would indicate that a universe containing billions of galaxies, each with hundreds of billions of stars, and a multiverse containing countless such universes, can come back into existence and be reborn even after such a catastrophic event, would it not?

From what Mercury told Tanthal the board was something set up by really old gods that vanished and that they took a bunch of alien races and had them fight until the superiors won. So at the most, only the best ones in the multiverse would be able to come back if they beat the others. The question is would the teams that are involved in this actually want to fight like that? Partly I would say yes, but then again several sections are made of heroes and the like that can work together as a team so....they would come back but only the best of the best.

What with three quarters of the surface area of Earth being water, I would actually kind of expect that the same proportion of Incursion zones have been ocean as well... eliminating much chance of denizens of those worlds not forewarned and equipped with detection devices even noticing, much less stopping, those Incursions, unless there happened to be a population of Atlanteans in the right part of the ocean. But then, the Atlanteans have often been portrayed as pretty well spread around the oceans, so if it's the Incursion zones that are getting saved and pieced together to make Battleworld, those oceans may well be well stocked with varying versions of the Atlanteans. If they could make common cause together against the surface dwellers... but then of course you probably had alternates where Attuma or Krang or Lemurians or whoever were ruling Atlantis rather than Namor, or where Namor is not inclined to work with a pale copy of himself.

The funny thing is they haven't talked about that at all. I'm hoping that you're right though! I would rather the population of Atlantis not be fully gone. Shame there's not an Atlantis Battleworld book, but with Namor becoming a sort of villain...I'm crossing my fingers that we do get something. Maybe it's a secret that they haven't revealed yet?