What if Clark saved Jonathan Kent from the tornado?

[Yeoman]

Some of these criticisms have been done to death ie., when was he really able to force the fight somewhere else what with Zod on him like glue? The "destroying livelihoods" thing has been common and an ultra criticism of a mild comedy scene and I find it interesting because the scene is a takeoff on a scene from "Smallville" and the "I go back and beat the snot out of the guy in the restaurant to get revenge" scene from Superman II.

In Superman II he caused some minor damage to the bar and then paid for said damages. And it is still largely considered out of character.

In MoS he crucifies a truck in the parking lot. You have ended that man's career. He' was a douchebag, sure, but destroying his entire career? Meanwhile, you can be pretty sure he's not gonna pay to have it removed. He certainly can't afford to anymore. So who has to pay for it? The bar.

So he destroyed a man's life and caused thousands of dollars in property damage to the people he was trying to "help." Meanwhile, MoS was a far more serious movie than Superman II. Superman II could get away with that as comedy because this is a movie with gorramn "Great Wall of China repairing vision." While MoS is dour and wants to take itself seriously.

[Guy1]

In Superman II he caused some minor damage to the bar and then paid for said damages. And it is still largely considered out of character.

In MoS he crucifies a truck in the parking lot. You have ended that man's career. He' was a douchebag, sure, but destroying his entire career? Meanwhile, you can be pretty sure he's not gonna pay to have it removed. He certainly can't afford to anymore. So who has to pay for it? The bar.

So he destroyed a man's life and caused thousands of dollars in property damage to the people he was trying to "help." Meanwhile, MoS was a far more serious movie than Superman II. Superman II could get away with that as comedy because this is a movie with gorramn "Great Wall of China repairing vision." While MoS is dour and wants to take itself seriously.

I thought that was Superman 4.

[The Chou Lives]

I thought that was Superman 4.

Indeed it was 4 with China rebuild power.

2 had random "S comes off uniform to use as a net deal.


Edit: Also in 2, the version released, Superman mind screwed Lois with a kiss, may have had her die at beginnig 9If not for crafty heat vision)

And..


AND killed off a compeltely powerless Zod when he could have just as easily sent him to jail. (As he had no more pwoer, literally, and considering what Zod would be like, powerless on a planet not used to, would be less pwoerful/prepared than frekaken Luthor.)

[MichaelC]

And the memory erasing kiss. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2hXpc4n9cc

[Amibo_Amore]

Weeellll, let me just say that while I enjoy the movie, I still respect your opinions guys and I appreciate that we can discuss it civilly in such a way with one another.

Still, I have to ask, is thread going anywhere? Because, it's not much of a Rumble thread.

Yeah, not exactly a "rumble" topic, but I thought it would be a bit interesting to have a different discussion. As for the movie itself, it was alright. Pretty clumsy at times? Yep. It had its moments though...Faora was awesome. And as for Johnathan Kent, I can imagine him being upset with Clark if had he saved him. We'd probably get a few more speeches, ones that would dig even deeper into a disturbing moral perspective.

Someone on this site came up with a parody that basically describes Johnathan Kent's morals, what with the tornado and the bus full of kids. Just so I don't copy word for word, I'll put my own spin on it.

Something like this...

(children are trapped in a burning building, and I'm about to rush off to save them)

Dad: No, son! Please don't save them! People are watching and you'll be forever exposed! You must allow them to die! It's the only way! By allowing these children to burn to death, you won't expose your powers! In a way, you're saving yourself!

[Guy1]

Yeah, not exactly a "rumble" topic, but I thought it would be a bit interesting to have a different discussion. As for the movie itself, it was alright. Pretty clumsy at times? Yep. It had its moments though...Faora was awesome. And as for Johnathan Kent, I can imagine him being upset with Clark if had he saved him. We'd probably get a few more speeches, ones that would dig even deeper into a disturbing moral perspective.

Someone on this site came up with a parody that basically describes Johnathan Kent's morals, what with the tornado and the bus full of kids. Just so I don't copy word for word, I'll put my own spin on it.

Something like this...

(children are trapped in a burning building, and I'm about to rush off to save them)

Dad: No, son! Please don't save them! People are watching and you'll be forever exposed! You must allow them to die! It's the only way! By allowing these children to burn to death, you won't expose your powers! In a way, you're saving yourself!

I just thought of something trippy.
Jonathan Kent was replaced by a Skrull. BAM! Epic Twist!

[Nalla_The_Black]

I get sick of people complaining about the final fight scene. First of all, a huge chunk of Metropolis was already wrecked by the time Clark got back from the Indian Ocean. Second, the fight never really got very far away from the wreckage. For example, the train station where the Coup De Grace happened was already heavily damaged when they got there. Third, at what point was Clark able to move the fight? Zod never gave him a chance to breath, let alone dictate the direction they fought in. And finally, how many times in the comics, the source material itself, has Superman fought enemies in the middle of downtown? I seem to recall that his Fight with Doomsday caused considerable collateral damage, and there are many more examples.

[big_adventure]

I get sick of people complaining about the final fight scene. First of all, a huge chunk of Metropolis was already wrecked by the time Clark got back from the Indian Ocean. Second, the fight never really got very far away from the wreckage. For example, the train station where the Coup De Grace happened was already heavily damaged when they got there. Third, at what point was Clark able to move the fight? Zod never gave him a chance to breath, let alone dictate the direction they fought in. And finally, how many times in the comics, the source material itself, has Superman fought enemies in the middle of downtown? I seem to recall that his Fight with Doomsday caused considerable collateral damage, and there are many more examples.

That's specious to the extreme: Zod wanted to kill Kal at that time, since Kal had already destroyed his plans. Kal simply had to fly out into a field and all that damage was finished. Zod absolutely would have followed.

[Powerboy]

Indeed it was 4 with China rebuild power.

2 had random "S comes off uniform to use as a net deal.


Edit: Also in 2, the version released, Superman mind screwed Lois with a kiss, may have had her die at beginnig 9If not for crafty heat vision)

And..


AND killed off a compeltely powerless Zod when he could have just as easily sent him to jail. (As he had no more pwoer, literally, and considering what Zod would be like, powerless on a planet not used to, would be less pwoerful/prepared than frekaken Luthor.)

Even if he didn't actually kill him but crushed his hand and bashed him around, the only motive for it once he knew Zod no longer had his powers was revenge.

[Amibo_Amore]

I just thought of something trippy.
Jonathan Kent was replaced by a Skrull. BAM! Epic Twist!

Best plot twist ever. Reminds me of what happened in Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

[Nik Hasta]

That's specious to the extreme: Zod wanted to kill Kal at that time, since Kal had already destroyed his plans. Kal simply had to fly out into a field and all that damage was finished. Zod absolutely would have followed.

Loathe as I am to defend Man of Steel...

In the speech immediately preceding the fight Zod flat out said that he was going to kill humanity. If Superman had tried to draw him off by outright running, then Zod might have just started slaughtering people wholesale.

While the film does have pretty serious flaws, the dynamics of the final battle aren't that bad. I would have liked to have Superman making more of an effort to take the fight out of a populated area and feel the film suffered a lot that we didn't get to see Superman fixing the damage and saving people in the aftermath. But... yeah, him fighting Zod there and then can be explained by the motivations of Zod at the time.

[byc]

I didn't like MoS either, and I disliked Kevin Coskent quite a bit, but's let's be fair.

He's not saying not to help people, but that he has to be very careful. I prefer the Pa Kent that teaches Clark to help if he can, to respect life (he didn't do that in the movie, and that bugs me a lot, especially after the Zod necksnap). I get why this Pa Kent tells Clark to be careful and to hide himself. He's a farmer, he doesn't know if the government would be able to hurt Clark or not. Pa Kent dying was way too Batman for my liking, although that happened in 1978 as well.

MoS, good action movie, poor Superman movie.

[byc]

I think the main problem with MoS is the direction DC choose to go with (not Synder's directing, which was adequate). We have a darker Superman at the beginning of his career, we have a much bigger emphasis on Krypton and Jor-El and less wth Pa Kent, we have this insane fight at the end of the movie that is too big and commits the one fatal flaw of Superman (the no-kill rule).

The fight itself was very cool, but I really dislike the direction of the size of it. It wrecked half the city easily, killed thousands of people, made Superman break the no-kill rule, and possibly setup DC for fail in future movies as they have to TOP that scene. In BvS or JLA, we better get the entire planet exploding or something, because if it's just a city, Superman's fight can destroy that, no need for the JLA. I said before I expect Superman vs. Darkseid to have them throw each other through planets, black holes, galaxies, etc, and now, DC might actually have to do that (or destroy Apokolips since it's always okay for villains to die).

My joke peeve with MoS is Pa Kent died to save the dog. But it wasn't even the same dog a few years later! He died for nothing!

[The Drunkard Kid]

I'm wondering why everyone holds the Zod-Killing against MoS Clark when comic Clark killed all 3 Kryptonians? Also, where does the "Zod was powerless" thing come from, since he was still on Earth (whose atmosphere was what was giving the Kryptonians there powers in this movie) and had just been heat visioning the crap out of the landscape moments prior?

I mean, Kryptonite and Red Sun draining are not things in this continuity, and the only readily available source of Kryptonian-depowering atmosphere got dropped into the Phantom Zone by Law & Order : SVU's Detective Stabler beforehand, so there's no way to feasibly contain Zod, and Clark only stood a chance against Zod because Zod had next to 0 experience with his powers. Killing him was pretty much the only way to keep Zod from slaughtering humanity shortly thereafter, and it clearly toe Clark up to do so, just like in the comics.

[The MunchKING]

I'm wondering why everyone holds the Zod-Killing against MoS Clark when comic Clark killed all 3 Kryptonians? Also, where does the "Zod was powerless" thing come from, since he was still on Earth (whose atmosphere was what was giving the Kryptonians there powers in this movie) and had just been heat visioning the crap out of the landscape moments prior?

I think the "Zod was Powerless" thing is a talking about Superman II, when he tricked Zod and the other two into a Kryptonian depowering chamber.