SUPERMAN 2000 pitch: The biggest missed opportunity of the past 20 years? Or bullet dodged?

[Jim Kelly]

I remember the first week in 1999, I was walking on air. On New Year's Day I had gone to one of the local comic shops for their annual sale. I had picked up what I considered good deals on some vintage comics, some ARCHIVES and TPBs for a fraction of the cover price--and THE KINGDOM No. 2. I read that last comic on the bus after I left the store. And when I finished it, the skies were blue, the horizon ahead was endless, the sun was shining bright and all was right with the world. I felt a kind of joy and optimism about comics that I hadn't felt in a good ten years. Everything was possible.

But by a week later, the Internet had spoken. THE KINGDOM wasn't good. Hypertime was the worst thing that could ever happen. This wouldn't be the first time the Internet had killed my dreams and wouldn't be the last, but this is the time I learned that lesson most resoundingly. Yes Hypertime hung around for awhile and a few good stories came out of it, but it never was the great new dawn I hoped and believed it would be in that first week of 1999.

So this is why I have a hard time believing that, even if the Superman 2000 proposal had materialized, it would have been embraced by fandom, been supported by DC and lasted for any significant period.

[Auguste Dupin]

I remember the first week in 1999, I was walking on air. On New Year's Day I had gone to one of the local comic shops for their annual sale. I had picked up what I considered good deals on some vintage comics, some ARCHIVES and TPBs for a fraction of the cover price--and THE KINGDOM No. 2. I read that last comic on the bus after I left the store. And when I finished it, the skies were blue, the horizon ahead was endless, the sun was shining bright and all was right with the world. I felt a kind of joy and optimism about comics that I hadn't felt in a good ten years. Everything was possible.

But by a week later, the Internet had spoken. THE KINGDOM wasn't good. Hypertime was the worst thing that could ever happen. This wouldn't be the first time the Internet had killed my dreams and wouldn't be the last, but this is the time I learned that lesson most resoundingly. Yes Hypertime hung around for awhile and a few good stories came out of it, but it never was the great new dawn I hoped and believed it would be in that first week of 1999.

So this is why I have a hard time believing that, even if the Superman 2000 proposal had materialized, it would have been embraced by fandom, been supported by DC and lasted for any significant period.

The fans never embrace anything. Until it's over, then every one is all about how great it was and why can't modern comics be more like that, or whatever. Fans are sadly very predictable.

[Blacksun]

Hey, I've said much more than one positive thing about Man of Steel! Great casting, great SFX, unique take on Krypton, beautiful Golden Age-esque \S/ shield.

That's what makes that movie so painful for me...there was so much good there, but IMO, it was overshadowed by the bad.

Back to the Superman 2000 pitch, my feeling is that if editorial could have got it past Carlin, it would have lasted until DiDio came aboard. He would have quickly dismantled the work these guys were doing, because I seem to recall that DiDio and Waid have no love for one another. I could be wrong on that, however.

I'd have loved to see it, as it would have been the infusion of interest and innovation the Superman titles needed to avoid the seemingly countless reboots and tweaks that began with Loeb and continued through to the New 52.

Didio and waid problems came later, Didio even indicate Waid to be a EIC or something like that

[manofsteel1979]

Wait...are we a clique? A while back someone (The World maybe?) said something about us being "the in crowd". Are we the cool kids on the Super-forum? Lol

I guess so by default.

Lexrules is our crazy uncle hehe.

[manofsteel1979]

The fans never embrace anything. Until it's over, then every one is all about how great it was and why can't modern comics be more like that, or whatever. Fans are sadly very predictable.

Yeah. Sadly true. The irony, had Hypertime been a hit, we likely would have never had the New 52....or at least what it ended up being.

Thus, I hope that with CONVERGENCE, we see that concept folded back into the ongoing narrative.

As I said in my initial post, I would have likely had been one of the folk who would have lost his sh!t if the SUPERMAN 2000 pitch became reality, pretty much because I had no real exposure to the Pre-Crisis Superman beyond the most ancilliary terms, and most of the reason for that was I wrongfully assumed that if they had rebooted Superman in 1986, that meant the previous version was bad or "wrong", and thus I would have been offended that any creator would want to bring that back and reverse any aspect of MY Superman. Of course this was before I saw the light and was able to put the Post Crisis Superman into proper context with his prior incarnations. Time is the ultimate teacher.

[Ascended]

Yeah. Sadly true. The irony, had Hypertime been a hit, we likely would have never had the New 52....or at least what it ended up being.

Thus, I hope that with CONVERGENCE, we see that concept folded back into the ongoing narrative.

As I said in my initial post, I would have likely had been one of the folk who would have lost his sh!t if the SUPERMAN 2000 pitch became reality, pretty much because I had no real exposure to the Pre-Crisis Superman beyond the most ancilliary terms, and most of the reason for that was I wrongfully assumed that if they had rebooted Superman in 1986, that meant the previous version was bad or "wrong", and thus I would have been offended that any creator would want to bring that back and reverse any aspect of MY Superman. Of course this was before I saw the light and was able to put the Post Crisis Superman into proper context with his prior incarnations. Time is the ultimate teacher.

Agreed and co-signed.

By the late 90's I was getting real tired of the Super-books and looking for a change, but I hadn't quite started digging into the pre-Crisis stuff at that point beyond the classics everyone has read, like "For the Man Who Has Everything..." and "Whatever Happened...?"

I like to believe that, being an open minded and intelligent individual, I would have read the 2000 stuff, recognized its brilliance, and embraced it wholeheartedly. However, odds are I would have been on the DCMB ranting and raving about nostalgia and old fanboys dragging back a failed version of MY character.

Sometimes I'd like to go back and kick past-me in the ass.

[Johnny Thunders!]

Anytime someone has a good idea for Superman, I say use it. Now if we lost All Star Superman out of this, or had it by another artist? I say it worked out better as it did. Also, Waid's Superman in Birthright is great, but I prefer Busiek's run. That felt Like a married Bronze Age Superman comic. I prefer it over Johns run.

[manofsteel1979]

Anytime someone has a good idea for Superman, I say use it. Now if we lost All Star Superman out of this, or had it by another artist? I say it worked out better as it did. Also, Waid's Superman in Birthright is great, but I prefer Busiek's run. That felt Like a married Bronze Age Superman comic. I prefer it over Johns run.

I agree. Kurt Busiek's SUPERMAN run was a dream to read. Pity he left for TRINITY. I really wish he had stuck around for NEW KRYPTON.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I need to reread what few issues of Trinity I kept up with, everything felt a little undercooked.

[llozymandias]

I still remember Paul Levitz's angry response to that proposal; "super-stars don't work on the super-books".

[llozymandias]

I'm offended that I'm not on this list.

Come to think of it, I should also be on that list.

[manofsteel1979]

Come to think of it, I should also be on that list.

Sigh. OK you too....but NO ONE ELSE!!!! The bus can only hold so many....

[Dispenser Of Truth]

Let's see which of the Superman 2000 changes have in fact actually been implemented, and which haven't. Feel free to remind me of any I'm forgetting.

Superman listening to the neural crackle of his parents changing their minds: A moment in Waid's JLA
Superman's Power Tripling: All-Star
Laid-back super-compassionate Superman: All-Star
No underwear: Morrison's Action
Jor-El and Lara not knowing about Earth, or even for sure if Kal will make it: Birthright
Clark as disguise: All-Star/Birthright
Superman as Vegetarian: Birthright, and Morrison has confirmed in interview that this is implicitly his take as well
Lois and Clark sniping, dinner in the Titanic: All-Star, Titanic appears in the Fortress in Red Son
Identity being revealed and magical undoing of marriage: One More Day
Superman having a climatic battle with an army of supervillains under a red sun, demanding Mxy's help: Morrison's Action
Mxy can only cause mischief in the 3rd dimension: Implied in Waid's Brave and the Bold by way of Mxyzptlk's anti-matter counterpart Mixyezpitelik
Pa dies: All-Star
Jimmy's awesome: All-Star
Steve Lombard as a jackass Clark uses his powers to mess with: All-Star and Geoff Johns' Action
Most of the Fortress material that does show up: All-Star
New Bizarro world: All-Star
Lex playing chess: Red Son
Red Kryptonite as body horror: Waid's Brave and the Bold

And which haven't (as far as I'm aware)
Meeting with the JSA prior to becoming Superman
People approaching Clark at random, instinctively sensing his decency
Daily Planet as a primarily online service
Cat suspecting Clark might be Superman
The Superman Molecule
Superman's Impossible Room
Superman's extra secret identity as Hyperman
The Krypton Museum
The solar batteries
A Kltpzyxm word balloon left in 3D-space
Brainiac as Luthor's Frankenstein monster (though there are some shades of this in New Krypton, though not enough to say it was likely inspired)
Red K Metallo
Solaris as regular enemy
Toyman as a Toy-Man
Mxy reintroducing Elseworlds
Rebel Prankster
Ron Troupe as the Kryptonite Man

[Ascended]

I feel like shades of the Impossible Room made it into All-Star, with the cosmic anvil and baby sun-eater. But again, shades thereof...

[adkal]

Wait, when did I become part of a clique or the 'in crowd'?

...this has never happened to me before...

Maybe it's one of those 'only in the internet' things...