New Avengers 31 *spoilers*

[Ite]

Hickman's Fantastic Four #611 is being reprinted in the trade prequel for his Secret Wars, so I'm guessing this is going to be explicitly mentioned in the storyline as the origin of the incursions.

Nice I was thinking of Ebaying that issue but should just wait for this trade prequel. Thanks for mentioning there will be one.

[teepee]

I think you can, even if you favored the Galactus Seed.

Well done sir!

I thank you.I only favoured Galactus Seed for a day, in my defence, because the idea seemed silly at first. Once I thought about it, it was obvious. It was clear that a story was being constructed with the main elements of Secret War. That meant the Beyonders were the Ivory Kings. And Doom would acquire infinite power. And Rabum Alal was apparently an individual with infinite power. His alliance with Molecule Man (another feature of Secret War), an infinite power source, which was shoe-horned into the plot without any foreshadowing, was a dead giveaway, especially once they started to look for the birth of Rabum Alal.

I rather like the idea.

[Darkspellmaster]

I thank you.I only favoured Galactus Seed for a day, in my defence, because the idea seemed silly at first. Once I thought about it, it was obvious. It was clear that a story was being constructed with the main elements of Secret War. That meant the Beyonders were the Ivory Kings. And Doom would acquire infinite power. And Rabum Alal was apparently an individual with infinite power. His alliance with Molecule Man (another feature of Secret War), an infinite power source, which was shoe-horned into the plot without any foreshadowing, was a dead giveaway, especially once they started to look for the birth of Rabum Alal.

I rather like the idea.

So how was the infinite power source shoe horned into the plot exactly? Also interesting that you made that connection so fast. How was MM connected to Doom in the first secret wars?

Does this mean we get to have a giant hole blown up some where in SW #4?

[jackolover]

I get my books shipped monthly so I wont get to read this until april so I had to spoil myself on this reveal and based on everyones reaction I feel that this is a disappointment... I like Doom as much as the next fan but I feel that they could have used someone better as this multiversal destroyer. So I am interesting in seeing how Hickman can make this work and it seems there are a lot of holes to fill in this too.

Doom as The Great Destroyer just shows an Earth human is the big mover and shaker, of Incursions specifically directed at Earths, so here we have Earth directly related to the Secret Wars Event with Doom intrinsic to the outcome. Just feeling this through, Doom hired the Black Swans for a purpose. To thwart the Black Priests, and the Ivory Kings. The Ivory Kings are dissolving any Cosmic Beings that are connected to the Multiverses intrinsic stability, then there are the Map Makers, who are helped by Sidera Maris, (and as they are just evolved Adaptoids, there is another Earth connection in all this), who appear to be working for the Ivory Kings and the Ivory Kings are at odds with the GD Doom who is doing the same thing as the IK's.

What we don't know yet is why Doom is destroying Universes? Maybe Doom wants to thwart the Beyonders plan to send the Multiverse to oblivion, so he is getting portions of the Multiverse preserved in Battleworld so when the Ivory Kings think they have destroyed everything, Doom can come out of hiding and get Battleworld settled?

[jackolover]

I like the reveal, while expecting someone else, it does makes sense after reading Hickman's runs of Fantastic Four, FF and now Avengers.....there has to be more to all of this and this was just an initial reveal. Most likely there is no "Great Destroyer" and this is just Doom using the Black Swans (after all he said he created a religion and -without being controversial- there is always something lost in translation when it comes to religion) to fight the Beyonders while figuring out what the hell is going on or how all started.

And I think also that Doom will end up then being this ruler or king of Battleworld (heck, I now believe that Battleworld is a creation of him and Molecule Man in order to at least try to salvage the Multiverse in case of failure).

Yes. Also the Black Swan says, "You will remember me when you die, because I have been there already" or something to that effect. That suggests Black Swan knows Battleworld is there and is part of their religion?

[jackolover]

Yes, Owen is a big factor but I just wonder too if that is enough. Has Marvel tossed out the Englehart story in FF#319-320 where it was revealed that the Molecule Man and the SW Beyonder were incomplete halves of a Cosmic Cube? Where does that put you if you have Molecule Man on your side and say an Infinity Gauntlet? Remember the Doomverse was created with one and the Priests and the Professors took it from Doom. I still wonder if they will have a role in this along with the Doomverse. We don't know if that was destroyed or not. I am not sure if it even had an Earth of just Doomopolis.

BTW, I guess that judgment that the Living Tribunal laid down on Doom in the Scott Lang story in FF is null and void.

What issue was the LT story in FF?

[jphamlore]

Nice I was thinking of Ebaying that issue but should just wait for this trade prequel. Thanks for mentioning there will be one.

This is the Amazon description for this prequel trade for Hickman's Secret Wars:

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Wars-Pr...dp/0785193995/

[jackolover]

The real mystery is what caused all of this to happen. It seems like it wasn't the birth of Rabum Alal after all.

Yes. The birth of Rabum Alal was just Doom appearing in the distant past, where he started the Swans destroying Earths. The question is, what did Doom know about the Beyonders plan, and, was the Doom in the current Earth-616 already the Great Destroyer but posing as our Doom all along?

[ROSA13]

[Ite]

This is the Amazon description for this prequel trade for Hickman's Secret Wars:

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Wars-Pr...dp/0785193995/

Looks awesome the only comics I have from that are Secret Wars 10-12. Thanks man!

[Chainsaw Vigilante]

I'm now wondering if the Mad Celestials started attacking Reeds because Ultimate Reed or 616 Reed had something to do with the destruction of the multiverse. They may have gone mad when confronted by a Beyonder and either escaped or defeated/killed it, and learned of their plans.

If this Secret Wars is following the old one to some extent I'm thinking Doom will eventually try to/succeed in steal The Beyonders' power. If The Beyonder was an infant Beyonder (going by the term child unit), then Doom already has an idea as to what he can do to one. He used Galactus' Taa 2 ship last time, and this could be one instance where Galactus (also in the original Secret Wars and in plenty of Hickman's FF) could come into play.

There's also the question of where the other cosmic cube beings like Kubik and The Shaper of Worlds are and come into play (them being benevolent), I hope they are not ignored. Then there's the tidbit of The Beyonder/Kosmos as The Maker being destroyed by the big crunch, could that harm The Beyonders?

Something else interesting being The Molecule Man. When his cube energies were separated from him to make Kosmos out of The Beyonder, this unlocked MM's latent power, which was enough to toy with Kosmos. I know Hickman read those issues, so if he's going with cube beings related to The Beyonders, then maybe MM could be a weapon against them, as well as a way to rebuild things. MM and Franklin together could be something else.

As far as collapsing all realities into one, aside from Fraction's Defenders this was also addressed in Generation X with the mutant Gaia powering some cosmic machine that could do jut that and M-Plate trying to activate it. This was also in a different way how Abraxas was going to destroy the multiverse by breaking down the barriers of realities and collapsing all realities in on each other until the multiverse crowded itself and popped, leaving only himself.

[Iron Maiden]

So how was the infinite power source shoe horned into the plot exactly? Also interesting that you made that connection so fast. How was MM connected to Doom in the first secret wars?

Does this mean we get to have a giant hole blown up some where in SW #4?

Doom sort of counseled Owen into realizing his full potential as the Molecule Man. I guess you could also say he fixed him up with his GF of many years, Marsha Rosenberg. She along with Mary McPherson were brought over from that piece of Denver that the Beyonder brought over. Using one of the alien devices laying around Battleworld, they were transformed into Metahumans Volcana and Titania.

[jackolover]

You can make a good arguement making Doom the Destroyer effectively DOES make the character live up to the name.

Making the GD, Doom, was a bit of a shock to me. The implications started streaming quickly on why Doom would be doing this. He doesn't want Earth destroyed, because he has baby Val on Earth. Now we have to reconcile this from a completely different POV, because originally this was just a horror story, and the MU was destroyed in May 2015. Now we can see if Doom is involved, it isn't going down without a fight, but what sort of fight? Doom has been at this for a long time, getting Swans to do this thing. It gives me more sympathy for our Black Swan and her crushing depression on the actions she is doing.

[scottsummer]

For god sake I hope Doom's plan to defeat the Beyonders is not another one of those "DOOM WANTS COSMIC POWERRRR" scheme, in which he tried to steals their almighty power and fail miserably.

[Ite]

Doom sort of counseled Owen into realizing his full potential as the Molecule Man. I guess you could also say he fixed him up with his GF of many years, Marsha Rosenberg. She along with Mary McPherson were brought over from that piece of Denver that the Beyonder brought over. Using one of the alien devices laying around Battleworld, they were transformed into Metahumans Volcana and Titania.

Yeah Molecule owes a lot to Doctor Doom.