New Avengers 31 *spoilers*

[Ite]

I think the fact that we didn't see Molecule Man and Doom for a few issues made the reveal too obvious.

How come you didn't call it before hand?

[jackolover]

I think we'll see the journey from Doom to Rabum Alal in the next NA or so. When he left with Molecule Man started the beginning of his transformation. Breevort's interview hints as much.

I'm ok with the reveal. Makes sense with everything going on.

So Avengers#1 was about Tony Stark, and New Avengers #1 was about Steve Rogers? It would be interesting that Avengers #44 was showing us something important about Tony in the end there.

[teepee]

How come you didn't call it before hand?

It IS completely obvious in retrospect. Best narrative surprises are like that, because to work they have to be sign posted and also misdirected.

But most people figured it was more likely Galactus seed. Not unreasonably to be fair.

[Darkspellmaster]

I've got a funny feeling Rabum Alal and Doctor Doom have some linguistic or code connection, but I haven't taken the time to think what it might be. Sort of thing Hickman would do. If you make it Raabum Alal then you have the right number of characters with the right number of repetitions.

I was trying to do that too, only with trying to see if it was connected to an actual Sumarian god, and no luck. So you think that Rabum Alal is some sort of Lord Voldemort = I am Tom Riddle sort of thing going on?

@Iron Maiden: Thank you so much for the backstory. I was wondering how Titania and Volcana knew one another in She-hulk, and now I know.

[Darkspellmaster]

It IS completely obvious in retrospect. Best narrative surprises are like that, because to work they have to be sign posted and also misdirected.

But most people figured it was more likely Galactus seed. Not unreasonably to be fair.

Speaking of said seed, I'm wondering if Robinson's God Whisper machine and the Eternals are going to come into play with this revel. You think that they could be trying to connect that to maybe controlling the seed? I know they're using it on Galactus right now, but could that just be part of a test thing?

[jackolover]

General come back to the disappointment with the Doom reveal: The Twist is NOT Rabum Alal is Doom. It is not. Honestly.

The twist is that the only force in the universe that the Ivory Kings (who are out to destroy everything) are even a little worried about is Dr. Doom. Someone who is dangerous, yes, but no more powerful than any of the standing Avengers. The heroes went from (possibly) being able to play off Rabum Alal against the Ivory Kings for breathing room (picking off the winner) to realizing there is no out at all.

Again, this reveal is like the Last of the Final Five on Battlestar Galactica. The identity was literally a shock to no one. The implication (there was no outside third party coming to save the day) was a huge shock.

So Doom ,the King, has no clothes? He is naked before the Beyonders?

[jackolover]

I mean, this can't end well. It never ends well with Doom. And do you think the 616 survivors are going to want to deal with Doom ruling over them?

It may or may not be Doom as the Ruler of Battleworld. But if it is, I can't see a problem, because Doom isn't usurping any countries like on Earth. It's just a lot of realities he may have saved, so they should be grateful to the Ruler.

[teepee]

I was trying to do that too, only with trying to see if it was connected to an actual Sumarian god, and no luck. So you think that Rabum Alal is some sort of Lord Voldemort = I am Tom Riddle sort of thing going on?

Yeah maybe
doctordoom
raabumAlal

If you could work out which letters match, you might find a codec. o is 14 letters past a.

Or might be nothing there. Just a bit of fun I guess.

[Montressor]

It was explained away in a Thunderbolts story as I recall. In Millar's FF Doom tells the Fantastic Four that after Clyde Wyncham hurled him back into the dawn of time he was ripped apart by prehistoric sharks and lived through centuries on hate somehow. He waited for the Master of Doom to appear and disguised himself to become the apprentice. All this is pretty vague. Fast forward to a Thunderbolts story where they happen to go back in time and see a man they don't recognize fighting off the sharks. They rescue him and he reveals himself to be Doom (his garments, etc were pretty ripped up from fighting off the sharks) and he takes over control of their time machine sending them all back to the present. So turns out that part of it was Doom was just spinning a yarn for the FF's benefit but it still doesn't totally account for the time he spent traveling with MOD as disguised as his apprentice. So yeah, it seems like it's mostly been done away with.

Great to hear this, as I hated the 'Marquis of Death' stuff. Of course with Wyncham's ties to the 'real world' and some of the theories of Secret Wars being very meta, I wouldn't be surprised if Hickman works him into all of this.

[Ite]

It may or may not be Doom as the Ruler of Battleworld. But if it is, I can't see a problem, because Doom isn't usurping any countries like on Earth. It's just a lot of realities he may have saved, so they should be grateful to the Ruler.

Doom is a good ruler.

[Ite]

Great to hear this, as I hated the 'Marquis of Death' stuff. Of course with Wyncham's ties to the 'real world' and some of the theories of Secret Wars being very meta, I wouldn't be surprised if Hickman works him into all of this.

I was the only who called The Marquis as The Great Destroyer lol.

[jackolover]

Probably along this line:

Using the idea of story and how a story can be perceived as reality, thus true magic, Doom pretty much sets up a plan where in he or someone creates a religion around him telling his story. All stories, when perceived to be reality become that reality, thus enable the one that drafts the story to become god. Following so far?

Doom as a god via the religion that he created now can effect possibly the world tree and other such things. In order to gain an advantage over the beings that he wants believing him to be a great destroyer more then likely uses his own magic and Molecule man's powers to create the red incursions so that he may create an army (or pawns) on a chess field (the set up of Battle world) to stop the beyonders from saying "Screw this place we need to remake everything because our toys aren't playing the way we want them to."

So the god is pretty much Doom who's made people believe he is a god, thus becoming one. Sort of like how belief in Thor gives him powers and such.

Getting away from everything Doom significant, Battleworld really looks like a baby Beyonder trying to play with his toys again. "I wish everything would happen the way I want it to happen. Let's put these toys together and I want to see what happens". Doom may want to stop all the Multiverse collapsing, but it may happen despite what he plans, and everybody on Battleworld are just going to have to do what baby Beyonder allows them to do.

[Ite]

Getting away from everything Doom significant, Battleworld really looks like a baby Beyonder trying to play with his toys again. "I wish everything would happen the way I want it to happen. Let's put these toys together and I want to see what happens". Doom may want to stop all the Multiverse collapsing, but it may happen despite what he plans, and everybody on Battleworld are just going to have to do what baby Beyonder allows them to do.

If the baby Beyonder is involved are the older Beyonders stronger than him or no?

[jackolover]

If the baby Beyonder is involved are the older Beyonders stronger than him or no?

I haven't worked out the details so far. Maybe the Baby Beyonder is contrary to his elders, and as the Adult Beyonders wipe their hands of the Multiverse and walk away, baby Beyonder chuckles and takes out the toys he hordes away and starts playing.

[JSY]

We know the incursions were started when a universe died prematurely, a long time ago.

Molecule Man needs to take Doom somewhere, asks Doom to build a machine.

What's Doom's most famous machine? The Time Machine. Should have seen that coming.

Also, it really sucked to watch the Black Priests get their asses kicked like that. Strange just walks them into a trap and they die. The end. Wow. Really hope there's more to them than just setting up the big bads.