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  1. #61
    Senior Member ShaokhaN's Avatar
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    This reveal is probably one of the most underwhelming things I've ever read in my life. Just... wow. Two years of reading this story for the Great Destroyer to end up being 616-Doom? I just can't put into words how disappointed I am (and I love Doom).


    Not to mention how slowly this is still moving forward. Just terrible. If the reveal is going to be this underwhelming, at least accompany it with an explanation of how it came to be.
    Last edited by ShaokhaN; 03-11-2015 at 08:21 AM.

  2. #62
    Incredible Member Viteh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaokhaN View Post
    This reveal is probably one of the most underwhelming things I've ever read in my life. Just... wow. Two years of reading this story for the Great Destroyer to end up being 616-Doom? I just can't put into words how disappointed I am (and I love Doom).


    Not to mention how slowly this is still moving forward. Just terrible. If the reveal is going to be this underwhelming, at least accompany it with an explanation of how it came to be.
    Yeah, the pace it too slow, even for Hickman.

  3. #63
    Genesis of A Nemesis Things Fall Apart's Avatar
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    Too bad Remender brought Sentry back for no reason. The Void would have been an awesome reveal.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaokhaN View Post
    This reveal is probably one of the most underwhelming things I've ever read in my life. Just... wow. Two years of reading this story for the Great Destroyer to end up being 616-Doom? I just can't put into words how disappointed I am (and I love Doom).


    Not to mention how slowly this is still moving forward. Just terrible. If the reveal is going to be this underwhelming, at least accompany it with an explanation of how it came to be.
    Quoted for truth.

  5. #65
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spear of Bashenga View Post
    Too bad Remender brought Sentry back for no reason. The Void would have been an awesome reveal.
    Yeah, but anyone like that would have felt like a very last minute thing thrown in the story. Doom at least is a character that we know has been used in Hickman's stuff from the very start.

    Part of the reason I think Doom is NOT an exciting choice is simply because it's such a logical choice that Hickman has been building towards the entire time. That made him an obvious choice, which takes away from the excitement of the surprise factor. But overall, storywise I think it helps the story more that it was a character properly built up rather than someone we didn't see coming.

    Surprise factor wears off in 15 minutes. But going back through Hickmans Avengers and FF runs and looking for seeds he planted I believe will have a greater long term satisfaction for at least the more hardcore readers who do that sort of stuff.

  6. #66
    Junior Member DrTraveler's Avatar
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    As for the reveal itself: In this issue we did see the end of the Black Priests, something I expected would happen before the end. They weren't going to make it to Secret Wars. I have doubts about the Map Makers too. Doom's reveal is played as the big punch, but I think falls a bit flat. That isn't surprising as Hickman said this is a horror story, not a mystery. In horror stories the emphasis isn't on the reveal of the big bad... its on the fact that even knowing who the big bad is you're still really screwed. If anything, this felt like the reveal of the last of the Final Five over in Battlestar Galactica. The reveal isn't some huge shock...the implication is. Here, Doom being Rabum Alal means we aren't dealing with an Ivory Kings level guy who you can play off against the nihilistic Beyonders. He's essentially as screwed as we are. In BSG, the Final Cyclon reveal meant no outside help was coming for Humanity.

    I'd also add, there were a lot of hints. Hickman played this straight. The Council of Reeds warn our Reed in Fantastic Four 571 (the second issue of Hickman's run):

    "You don't know it yet, but you'll learn that there is no greater threat in the universe than Doom--His appetite is unmatched. He will never break. He will never yield."

  7. #67
    Veteran Member Double 0's Avatar
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    I will say this, that is quite a con Doom is playing on the Black Swans.

    It also makes me wonder who made the incursion exercise in the first place? Makes more sense if it's the Beyonders.
    "Race is a social construct, they say. And I remind them that money is a social construct, too. Social constructs have power." DeRay Mckesson

  8. #68
    Genesis of A Nemesis Things Fall Apart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Yeah, but anyone like that would have felt like a very last minute thing thrown in the story. Doom at least is a character that we know has been used in Hickman's stuff from the very start.
    He could work. The last time anyone saw MM before this was when Void killed him, his history is really jumbled and would make sense if he was created from a composite of worlds, destruction is what Void is all about, and he's supposed to be a genius.

    Obviously that's not how the story worked out, but it would have made sense.

    That said I realize I'm one of the few that really liked that character.
    Last edited by Things Fall Apart; 03-11-2015 at 08:36 AM.
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  9. #69
    "Comic Book Reviewer" InformationGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viteh View Post
    Yeah, the pace it too slow, even for Hickman.
    We are basically at the pace this series is always at before an event. It was this slow before Infinity and Original Sin, so it isn't surprising.


    Also, Hickman needs to get a better artist to draw this book. Ken Walker just does not have the capabilities to make this book look as grand or epic as you think it should. I mean, Dr. Strange talked about how vast and beyond comprehension this library was, but the artwork just made everything look so... generic and dull (probably didn't help that we montage through the library). It honestly doesn't look all that grand or impressive.

  10. #70

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    I knew it! Always said Doom had something to do with this. Still don't know what the end game is here. Maybe the Beyonders are trying to kill Doom for stilling some of their power back in the original secret wars.

    "All hope lies in Doom".
    Mark Allen Chi

  11. #71
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    I haven't read the Issue yet but with the Big reveal it makes sense if you think about it.i mean He has been in the First Secret Wars and his thurst for contral.With the Beyonders wiping out the Celestial had made him hungry for more power.Its like a game to him.So im thinking he is at war with the Beyonders

  12. #72
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fin5 View Post
    I haven't read the Issue yet but with the Big reveal it makes sence if you think about it.i mean He has been in the First Secret Wars and his thurst for contral.With the Beyonders wiping out the Celestial had made him hungry for more power.Its like a game to him.So im thinking he is at war with the Beyonders
    It's sort of funny how this Secret Wars is looking more and more like the original one. And by design I imagine.

    They're likely all going to bust out Secret shields any moment now.

  13. #73
    Incredible Member Viteh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    We are basically at the pace this series is always at before an event. It was this slow before Infinity and Original Sin, so it isn't surprising.
    Yep, that's true, events tend to make the previous issues move slowly. Seems like Hickman is just waiting til Secret Wars starts. It doesn't make it okay though.

  14. #74
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    I think I want to go back and read Hickman's F4 stuff. I was never a big F4 fan, but I loved what Hickman was doing in Secret Warriors and his Image stuff at the time, so I gave it a shot. I read up to right before the Three story line and dropped off because my pull list was too much at the time. Always planned to go back to it, might have to now.

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Biclopcicle View Post
    The only thing I can come up with is that, in NA 29, MM takes Doom to the "where it all began" (or whatever he says)...If the cover of NA 32 is indication, hopefully there will be an explanation of how exactly Doom got to the inner sanctum of the Library of Worlds and recruited the Black Swans, as well as how he supposedly began the early death of a universe on an alternate earth (maybe that is the "myth" part of the religion he started, and not literal truth)....we know that our Black Swan is unreliable historian
    Yea, this makes me think the entire story by the Black Swan and the cause of the incursion is a lie/myth created by Doom for some other purpose. This also makes me think that the Universe he created might have birthed the "Beyonders".

    The working theory I have is, when Nathaniel collapsed all of his counterparts into on reality, that actually started the collapse (incursions) of all Earths into one reality. Then all of the other events (Reed/Doom destroying his universe) just accelerted the collapse. What I can't figure out is why the Ivory Kings want everything destoryed.
    Mark Allen Chi

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