Fantastic Four #644: The End is Fourever #3 *spoilers*

[xMatt]

A consensus??? I think like one person said they didn't like it and another was disappointed in the dialog, whilst everyone else seems to be enjoying the book. Am I misreading this thread? Are you hearing differently on other boards?

I'm enjoying seeing the FF come together with their friends and allies. It's definitely refreshing to see heroes working together and good things happening out of that. I do wonder how Robinson is going to get all this resolved in one issue -- as I don't think he can shunt off the storyline to another book, like it appears he is going to do with Invaders.

Kirk keeps knocking it out of the park. His battle scenes are incredible.

I agree, I think this has been a very entertaining series. I think it really shows how effective long form storytelling can be: the cliffhangers of this issue were great. Each of them are caught in their own situation, under threat of death (but obviously they won't die) and I can't wait to find out how they escape. And Kirk has done some stellar work here, probably the best of his career. But not only Kirk, but his ink and colouring team, too. I really hope they get teamed together on a new series during Secret Wars or after, because they've done wonders here.

[Mark]

Just one more left.

Then they toss all the history into the trashcan for the reboot.

[Reviresco]

Pretty sure that's not going to happen. Even if they retcon some things (which I doubt), ALL the history isn't going going to be discarded.

Yeah I actually liked the issue and gave it a high mark (8/10) and love Robinsons run overall. I just dropped it one level because I felt the dialogue was weak. Sorry if I caused any confusion about that. Consensus as far as I've tallied overall of the run is many were hesitant and concerned about the idea of deconstructing the family and going on a dark note but really warmed up to and eventually applauded Robinsons concept and especially how he brought it all together by the end. I think after all is through his run is going to be one of the good water marks historically.

I agree, I think folks were a bit worried by the deconstruction, but came around pretty quickly. I am still amazed at how renumbering has affected the sales. Has any other book risen with a return to the old numbering, like this? Especially in the face of cancellation.

Will valeria finally be weaned of her morally suspect loyalty to Doom?

Valeria likes Doom. I don't think there's anything morally suspect there. It's not like she wants to be a villain.

I just took a look at the Marvel's solicitation for June and did not see Susan Storm or Johnny Storm listed in the new issues. I wonder if this means something bad happens to them in the final FF issue?

I don't think something bad is going to happen to them in Robinson's run, since he's said repeatedly that he is trying "to give the characters the best send-off he can." And "nobody that likes the Fantastic Four will have a bad taste in their mouth.
I'm not going to let anybody down, I'm not going to leave this book on a bad note. I love these characters."

[Reviresco]

I agree, I think this has been a very entertaining series. I think it really shows how effective long form storytelling can be: the cliffhangers of this issue were great. Each of them are caught in their own situation, under threat of death (but obviously they won't die) and I can't wait to find out how they escape. And Kirk has done some stellar work here, probably the best of his career. But not only Kirk, but his ink and colouring team, too. I really hope they get teamed together on a new series during Secret Wars or after, because they've done wonders here.

I've really been impressed by how Robinson uses the cliff hangers, here and in All New Invaders.

Agreed. Have we seen Kirk on a Secret Wars book? There's several artists missing from this event, some of them their biggest.

[xMatt]

I've really been impressed by how Robinson uses the cliff hangers, here and in All New Invaders.

Agreed. Have we seen Kirk on a Secret Wars book? There's several artists missing from this event, some of them their biggest.

It's expert stuff. Is there much crossover between the Fantastic Four and All New Invaders? Seeing as the original Human Torch and Namor are in both series.

And I haven't seen his name solicited for Secret Wars. Wonder if they're going to have a Captain Britain or some other UK based Battleworld series that he'll be up for. Would be fitting.

[swerve]

I just took a look at the Marvel's solicitation for June and did not see Susan Storm or Johnny Storm listed in the new issues. I wonder if this means something bad happens to them in the final FF issue?

Sue is prominent early on in Time Runs Out, so she's still around in 8 months, although she and Reed have feigned a falling out and she is pretending to help Cap/SHIELD track the Illuminati, while secretly gathering information and positioning herself to help Reed. I don't know if that falling out will be reflected in 645; I doubt it but it is possible.

[Mark]

Sue is prominent early on in Time Runs Out, so she's still around in 8 months, although she and Reed have feigned a falling out and she is pretending to help Cap/SHIELD track the Illuminati, while secretly gathering information and positioning herself to help Reed. I don't know if that falling out will be reflected in 645; I doubt it but it is possible.

I have a feeling he just snapped his fingers and she fell into line.

[Reviresco]

I have a feeling he just snapped his fingers and she fell into line.

I have a feeling you haven't read much Fantastic Four.

[Reviresco]

It's expert stuff. Is there much crossover between the Fantastic Four and All New Invaders? Seeing as the original Human Torch and Namor are in both series.

And I haven't seen his name solicited for Secret Wars. Wonder if they're going to have a Captain Britain or some other UK based Battleworld series that he'll be up for. Would be fitting.

Robinson? He's doing at least two Secret Wars books. The Armor Wars (with his awesome Invaders artist Steve Pugh), and the Ultron vs Zombies book. The later will have Jim Hammond in it -- though not sure if it's 616. I keep hoping to hear he's doing the New Mars book, as that would be the place for him to finish off some plots that he didn't get to finish in Invaders.

I'm not sure who is doing the High Avalon / Captain Britain book.

The plotlines of FF and Invaders don't intertwine, AFAIK. The crossover is mostly Robinson using Torch and Namor in both. Oh, and the music promoter also promoting Radiance.

Sue is prominent early on in Time Runs Out, so she's still around in 8 months, although she and Reed have feigned a falling out and she is pretending to help Cap/SHIELD track the Illuminati, while secretly gathering information and positioning herself to help Reed. I don't know if that falling out will be reflected in 645; I doubt it but it is possible.

I doubt it, because again, I believe Robinson when he says he isn't planning on an ending that would disappoint fans of the FF. Reed and Sue breaking up, even feigning it, would be breaking up the FF, not reaffirming it.

[Mark]

I have a feeling you haven't read much Fantastic Four.

I've read the FF going back as far as 1974 and in the recently Sue has given Reed a free pass on everything, I expect no less now. What has she actually called him on that wasn't settled with a quick honeymoon in space?

[Reviresco]

I've read the FF going back as far as 1974 and in the recently Sue has given Reed a free pass on everything, I expect no less now. What has she actually called him on that wasn't settled with a quick honeymoon in space?

So free pass = taking time for themselves to communicate about the problems they have and trying to solve them by talking and remembering what's important for their relationship??? Really? Who knew marriage counselors and psychologists weren't doing anything but giving people a free pass.

Sue HAS called Reed on any number of his actions, so your contention that she's given him a free pass is ludicrous, much less a free pass on EVERYTHING. That's not what free pass or everything means.

You constantly complain about hero on hero fights and the lack of 'morality' of superheroes, and yet here you are agitating for what? Sue to beat the crap out Reed for his well intentioned mistakes? For Sue to dump her husband and break up her family cause Reed isn't perfect enough for her standards? Or maybe Sue making a deal with the devil so she can get a Stepford Husband?

If you've actually read the FF since 1974, how did you miss the fact that Reed and Sue love each other deeply and don't consider their marriage disposal, even if it isn't perfect? Where, in all those books you've read since 1974, did you ever see Sue just fall into line, when Reed snapped his fingers?

[Mark]

So free pass = taking time for themselves to communicate about the problems they have and trying to solve them by talking and remembering what's important for their relationship??? Really? Who knew marriage counselors and psychologists weren't doing anything but giving people a free pass.

Sue HAS called Reed on any number of his actions, so your contention that she's given him a free pass is ludicrous, much less a free pass on EVERYTHING. That's not what free pass or everything means.

You constantly complain about hero on hero fights and the lack of 'morality' of superheroes, and yet here you are agitating for what? Sue to beat the crap out Reed for his well intentioned mistakes? For Sue to dump her husband and break up her family cause Reed isn't perfect enough for her standards? Or maybe Sue making a deal with the devil so she can get a Stepford Husband?

If you've actually read the FF since 1974, how did you miss the fact that Reed and Sue love each other deeply and don't consider their marriage disposal, even if it isn't perfect? Where, in all those books you've read since 1974, did you ever see Sue just fall into line, when Reed snapped his fingers?

Have we seen them talk anything out in the issues? Reed's involvement in the Illuminati, his construction of the world destroying bombs, his creating Clor? I haven't and I have yet to see Ben or Johnny call him on any of that either. The most we've seen from Sue is a harsh look during World War Hulk and later she actually defended his creation of Clor. Think what you want, I see nothing that tells me she isn't toeing his line when called to do so. Over react to my post if you will, my opinion is not changed.

[Reviresco]

Have we seen them talk anything out in the issues? Reed's involvement in the Illuminati, his construction of the world destroying bombs, his creating Clor? I haven't and I have yet to see Ben or Johnny call him on any of that either. The most we've seen from Sue is a harsh look during World War Hulk and later she actually defended his creation of Clor. Think what you want, I see nothing that tells me she isn't toeing his line when called to do so. Over react to my post if you will, my opinion is not changed.

Reed and Sue left to the FF to talk about those issues post Civil War. That was on panel. You even mentioned it -- disparagingly, of course.

The only person overreacting is you, when you say stuff, like Reed only has to snap his fingers and Sue follows. Likewise, you aren't seeing anything, only making up what fits in your negative world view, cause that finger snapping scene, never happened.

[xMatt]

Robinson? He's doing at least two Secret Wars books. The Armor Wars (with his awesome Invaders artist Steve Pugh), and the Ultron vs Zombies book. The later will have Jim Hammond in it -- though not sure if it's 616. I keep hoping to hear he's doing the New Mars book, as that would be the place for him to finish off some plots that he didn't get to finish in Invaders.

I'm not sure who is doing the High Avalon / Captain Britain book.

The plotlines of FF and Invaders don't intertwine, AFAIK. The crossover is mostly Robinson using Torch and Namor in both. Oh, and the music promoter also promoting Radiance.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to Robinson's Armor Wars. A great writer, on a great story with some great characters!

But I was also referring to Leonard Kirk. I haven't seen his name listed as artist and I think he'd be good for the Capt. Britain stories, if for no other reason than nostalgia. (Although Alan Davis would make a good artist on it for that reason, too).

[Reviresco]

Yeah, I'm looking forward to Robinson's Armor Wars. A great writer, on a great story with some great characters!

But I was also referring to Leonard Kirk. I haven't seen his name listed as artist and I think he'd be good for the Capt. Britain stories, if for no other reason than nostalgia. (Although Alan Davis would make a good artist on it for that reason, too).

I agree, either Kirk or Davis on a High Avalon book would be ideal. Though if he stays teamed up with Robinson on a New Mars story, I'd be happy about that too.

Yes, Iron Man fans are lucky Robinson is doing Armor Wars.