In Your Face Jam: Where Have All the LGBT Heroes Gone?

[CBR News]

Brett White examined Marvel's diverse lineup of books and noticed that one section of the population is underrepresented.


Full article here.

[Moose100]

Its basically them swapping out one group for another. Can't have too many at one time can we? (Sarcasm)

[KurtW95]

You know that only 3.5% of US adults consider themselves gay or bisexual. You'll find that Marvel has far more than that percentage of characters who identify themselves that way in the active superhero and supervillain community. And if you want more diverse characters, the answer is not to change existing characters. It's to create new ones.

[Michael P]

So queer people (are we allowed to call them that or is it another N-word thing?)

You're allowed to use it, but the usage has shifted to mean more than just gay.

[King's_Gambit]

You know that only 3.5% of US adults consider themselves gay or bisexual. You'll find that Marvel has far more than that percentage of characters who identify themselves that way in the active superhero and supervillain community. And if you want more diverse characters, the answer is not to change existing characters. It's to create new ones.

I was going to say the same thing. Having one solo book out of 17 star a queer character realistically isn't all that out of proportion. From that stand-point, having 4 LGBT solo-books, one for every letter of the acronym, actually would be excessive in exactly the way Brett claims he ISN'T trying to be (one book for every variety of minority). Asking for Marvel to have 25% of its solo-books star gay character is actually a pretty substantial commitment.

The Hercules comment was weird too. It's not enough that a queer character is starring in a solo book or that the queer character is acknowledged as being queer, but said character must also be shown doing queer things on a semi-regular basis.

The other issue is that I'm pretty hard-pressed to think of gay, let alone trans, characters capable of supporting their own solo book. Outside of Loki, who already has one. A new Herc book (apparently, with mandatory same-sex relationships) and a Wiccan/Hulkling book could work, though both would probably still be two of the lowest selling books in Marvel's line. And that's ultimately what it boils down to: money. Push comes to shove, Marvel is a business and while having a quarter of its solo books star queer characters may get them some GLAAD nominations, it won't get them sales. On that basis, I think you'd be extremely fortunate to see more than one queer-led solo book at any one time; Marvel only has so many slots to fill and only so many of those slots can be devoted to diversity over sales. As has sort of been noted in the article, that even seems to be DC's MO: Batwoman was the book and now that it's gone, Midnighter is the book.

[Moose100]

I was going to say the same thing. Having one solo book out of 17 star a queer character realistically isn't all that out of proportion. From that stand-point, having 4 LGBT solo-books, one for every letter of the acronym, actually would be excessive in exactly the way Brett claims he ISN'T trying to be (one book for every variety of minority). Asking for Marvel to have 25% of its solo-books star gay character is actually a pretty substantial commitment.

The Hercules comment was weird too. It's not enough that a queer character is starring in a solo book or that the queer character is acknowledged as being queer, but said character must also be shown doing queer things on a semi-regular basis.

The other issue is that I'm pretty hard-pressed to think of gay, let alone trans, characters capable of supporting their own solo book. Outside of Loki, who already has one. A new Herc book (apparently, with mandatory same-sex relationships) and a Wiccan/Hulkling book could work, though both would probably still be two of the lowest selling books in Marvel's line. And that's ultimately what it boils down to: money. Push comes to shove, Marvel is a business and while having a quarter of its solo books star queer characters may get them some GLAAD nominations, it won't get them sales. On that basis, I think you'd be extremely fortunate to see more than one queer-led solo book at any one time; Marvel only has so many slots to fill and only so many of those slots can be devoted to diversity over sales. As has sort of been noted in the article, that even seems to be DC's MO: Batwoman was the book and now that it's gone, Midnighter is the book.

I think you don't even have to do that much. I don't think it takes much for them to utilize these characters. Like first alot of them were being used alot now they are basically absent.

How can you be so sure it won't get sales?

[bert]

no one remembers Bunker over in Teen Titans.

that's a monthly from DC with a gay character.

or how about Harley Quinn (convincingly argued as Bi)? or Secret Six (with a Bi Catman and Transgender Porcelain)

[Jarvis]

Well, as a gay man, I gotta say, this article is just wrongheaded. Credit is not being given where credit is due. Marvel had the FIRST openly gay superhero (Northstar) and has a plethora of strong gay and bisexual characters that don't shy away from showing same-sex affection or talking about what it's like to be gay in realistic fashion (Wiccan, Hulkling, Rictor, Shatterstar, Karma, Vivesector, Phat, etc, etc.) If Marvel hadn't taken the risk first, DC would probably STILL not have any non-straight characters, at least not in their mainstream books (Vertigo is a different story). Since Marvel's inception, DC has always largely just copied what Marvel does.
Also, as far as "Who is Marvel's Wonder Woman?", why would Marvel WANT any of their female characters to be like Wonder Woman, who has never been able to consistently carry a book for a long time without it getting canceled? Furthermore, if you want comic companies to publish more books with women or GLBT leads, you have to convince more readers to BUY those books. Of course they're not going to keep publishing anything that isn't profitable, and with rare exceptions, female-led books haven't usually sold very well. As far as LGBT-led books, that's a little more untested, but I'm sure we will see how the market reacts to that idea in the coming years. We shouldn't be rushing or strong-arming a company that has ALWAYS displayed a commitment to sticking up for diversity, though (seriously, that's the whole POINT of the X-Men). Marvel knows what they're doing and has earned our trust. Just cos they might not have given certain demographics the kinds of books they'd ideally like to have YET doesn't mean those kinds of titles aren't ALREADY in the works. Ultimately, a character's gender or sexuality should not be why people do or do not read any comic book. There should be diversity (and there is) but let's keep the focus where it belongs: on telling good stories that are not entirely motivated by political correctness. Gay people are not going to have a nervous breakdown or feel oppressed if another comic about a heterosexual man is published, nor is it even necessarily true that every character we are assuming is straight actually IS. Just cos the writers haven't had that character come out TO US yet doesn't mean they might not be saving that reveal for the most appropriate story.

[Jonah Weiland]

Everyone be on your best behavior -- even if you're trying to make a good point. watch the use of offensive words. Those comments will be deleted and if you go to far you will be banned. Discuss the editorial and play nice.

[bert]

Well, as a gay man, I gotta say, this article is just wrongheaded. Credit is not being given where credit is due. Marvel had the FIRST openly gay superhero (Northstar) and has a plethora of strong gay and bisexual characters that don't shy away from showing same-sex affection or talking about what it's like to be gay in realistic fashion (Wiccan, Hulkling, Rictor, Shatterstar, Karma, Vivesector, Phat, etc, etc.) If Marvel hadn't taken the risk first, DC would probably STILL not have any non-straight characters, at least not in their mainstream books (Vertigo is a different story). Since Marvel's inception, DC has always largely just copied what Marvel does.

you're incorrect in that Marvel had the first openly gay character in mainstream comics.

DC has that dubious Honor with "Extrano". . who was introduced as a gay man in the pages of "Millenium" in 1988, and went on to costar in "the New Guardians"

I'm by no means saying he's a great character, but DC did it first.

Northstar came out in Alpha Flight #106 (1992)



and Marvel's Wonder Woman is (and always will be) She-Hulk. And she can be a fantastic character when well written.

and you're letting your cheerleading for Marvel (and apparent distaste for DC) color your argument and judgement.

I simply MUST address this:

Also, as far as "Who is Marvel's Wonder Woman?", why would Marvel WANT any of their female characters to be like Wonder Woman, who has never been able to consistently carry a book for a long time without it getting canceled?

Um. . you DO know that Wonder Woman is "one of the longest continually published comic characters" (credit to ComicVine).

her 1st appearance was in All Star Comics #8 in 1941

Her solo book launched in 1942, and ran until 1986 (329 issues) 44 YEARS
Re-booted from Crisis, her 2nd series ran from 1987 until 2006 (228 Monthly issues + 8 Annuals) 19 YEARS
Re-launched again in 2006, her 3rd series ran until 2010 (44 monthly issues +1 Annual) 4 years
and then re-launched (for the Nu52) with the current series in 2011 and still running.

"never been able to consistently carry a book for a long time without it getting cancelled" my sweet Tiara.

[NewMutant]

no one remembers Bunker over in Teen Titans.

that's a monthly from DC with a gay character.

or how about Harley Quinn (convincingly argued as Bi)? or Secret Six (with a Bi Catman and Transgender Porcelain)

Didn't Angela's book introduce a trans character in it?

[bert]

Didn't Angela's book introduce a trans character in it?

I don't read a lot of Marvel (and have never read Angela), so I'm not sure if the article writer is correct or not.

if we Do count Vertigo, then DC had both a Transvestite (Ragged Robin in "Invisibles", Danny the Street in "Doom Patrol") and a Transsexual (Rebis in "Doom Patrol") character in the late 80's

[Mhenry86]

I admit it did seem like he was wanting to get some kind of quota he alluded to in the article, but after reading the rest of it I kinda understand.

But for me, who can't entirely relate to bigotry/sexism/etc. others may face, I don't think it should be the focus of the comic.
For instance, [fill-in-the-blank-editor] at a summit says we need a gay comic now so start with that & figure out the villains & story later.

But it should start with a good story, & the character's sexuality, religion & so on aren't placating to the readers.
It can be part of the personality & how to approach a problem but it would be a mis-prioritization to focus only on 1 aspect of the person in order to get an "A for diversity."

[tokenbg1009]

you're incorrect in that Marvel had the first openly gay character in mainstream comics.

DC has that dubious Honor with "Extrano". . who was introduced as a gay man in the pages of "Millenium" in 1988, and went on to costar in "the New Guardians"

I'm by no means saying he's a great character, but DC did it first.

Northstar came out in Alpha Flight #106 (1992)

Did Extrano ever actually come out or was it, similar to Northstar before he officially came out, just hinted at constantly? I can't find anything on him actually coming out. If so then that means Northstar, who debuted in 1979, is still the first.

[bert]

Did Extrano ever actually come out or was it, similar to Northstar before he officially came out, just hinted at constantly? I can't find anything on him actually coming out. If so then that means Northstar, who debuted in 1979, is still the first.

he was introduced as a gay man. so yeah, he was out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra%C3%B1o


LOL. . no "hinting" here:



and there's this too: