Iron Fist: The Living Weapon Appreciation

[Daniel22]

I haven't seen the new season yet but the D@C and Comisgate crowds are in full blown hissy fit mode, so it did some things right at least.

[MarvelFan91]

I haven't seen the new season yet but the D@C and Comisgate crowds are in full blown hissy fit mode, so it did some things right at least.

Totally. I figured they would be.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I bought volume 1 and 2 of the Ed Brissom run. Interested in reading it again, brissom has good ideas for the character.

Well I know that in the comics the new teen Power Man, gained a stronger version of the Iron Fist by accident and that was before the Netfilx show was ever a thing.

The Producers know that Danny Rand is the most problematic character in the Iron Fist series but don't understand WHY.

Many people online keep telling them that its a Mighty Whitey issue and that Coleen was a better character than Danny was and was what they addressed.

That the Season One was given several traumatic issues to work thru in story which the audience had no patience for wasn't considered.

But even the people who HATED the Iron Fist series and Finn Jones performance in it liked Episode 10 of Luke Cage Season 2 "Main Ingredient" where Danny Rand comes to visit Luke.

Iron Fist fans wanted a playful laid back Danny Rand from the comics, Main Ingredient finally gave it to them and afterwards casuals wanted the same damn thing too(so Finn Jones isn't the problem).

But the people in charge of the actual Iron Fist show really don't want to do playful laid back Danny Rand. Maybe Season 3 will be different now that the I.F. producers know how well received the Iron Fist's Luke Cage guest appearance was.

You have a good point but I think it's more because Danny had unclear motivations/stakes etc and he didn't have a real pressing problem compared to the other 3. The comics handled this better because his goal was revenge and later to clear his name while the show was more iffy.

this video explains it better.


That's why Colleen connected more with the audience. She had more clear motivation/arc/stakes. Her being a martial arts teacher who wants to keep her kids straight and being a cage-fighter is more compelling in action than danny halfheartedly going from goal to goal.

[Mike_Murdock]

Solo Iron Fist started out very serious, but lightened up after being paired with hard edged tough guy Luke Cage. some of the better remembered
PM/IF stories have a lighter touch to them. Luke Cage got bent towards being a straight man and Iron Fist became more easygoing as a result.

That is how we got the last PM/IF comics series where they exaggerated those roles.

That is probably the most over version of Iron Fist as far as mass media goes

I think Danny got goofy at times, but not playful. He was very serious to start. With Luke, they played up the fish out of water aspect. The new series had him more playful, but it was more of a deliberately goofy, imo. It was also after a significant amount of time.

But I've read through issue 90 of Power Man and Iron Fist, his original Iron Fist run, and I don't agree with those who think they screwed up his characterization on the show.

[DragonsChi]

Well I know that in the comics the new teen Power Man, gained a stronger version of the Iron Fist by accident and that was before the Netfilx show was ever a thing.

The Producers know that Danny Rand is the most problematic character in the Iron Fist series but don't understand WHY.

Many people online keep telling them that its a Mighty Whitey issue and that Coleen was a better character than Danny was and was what they addressed.

That the Season One was given several traumatic issues to work thru in story which the audience had no patience for wasn't considered.

But even the people who HATED the Iron Fist series and Finn Jones performance in it liked Episode 10 of Luke Cage Season 2 "Main Ingredient" where Danny Rand comes to visit Luke.

Iron Fist fans wanted a playful laid back Danny Rand from the comics, Main Ingredient finally gave it to them and afterwards casuals wanted the same damn thing too(so Finn Jones isn't the problem).

But the people in charge of the actual Iron Fist show really don't want to do playful laid back Danny Rand. Maybe Season 3 will be different now that the I.F. producers know how well received the Iron Fist's Luke Cage guest appearance was.

The bold isn't all the way correct Vic. Powerman (teen) is similar to Robbie Reyes in the fact that their power source is similar but not really the same at all. Powerman (teen) gained his powers through a combination of science and almost supernatural means. While he does manipulate chi it's not the chi derived from a Dragon or used in the same manners of an Iron Fist. The way its been shown it could be described as similar powers but different source/ways to go about using them.

To describe it better it can be compared to Quicksilver and the Flash. Both have Super Speed but ones powers come from an external Forces that allows him to do impossible things and the others derives from physical prow-less and is limited to his own body.

Another example would be the Human Torch and Firestar. One has microwave radiation powers that can be projected as flames the other has actual fire powers.

Point is their similar power-sets but not the same powers.

[Naked Bat]

I didn't have time yet to watch the new season, but from what i've seen, they really worked on the fight choreography. I can't wait to watch it and I hope it delivers.

[MichaelC]

Finn still looks like he's never seen the inside of a gym. He's more Pillsbury Doughboy than Iron Fist.

[Naked Bat]

I don't hate Finn in the role. I think what makes Danny kinda unlikeable in the first season and in defenders is the way he's written, even though the actor's prestation is not exactly stellar. But I have to admit, I wonder what made them think he would be a good fit for Danny.

[Sutekh]

I haven't seen the new season yet but the D@C and Comisgate crowds are in full blown hissy fit mode, so it did some things right at least.

It's pretty darn clear from the end that Danny isn't just walking away, but actually seeking to prove himself worthy of the title by means a bit more philosophical than the K'un-Lun standard of 'punchiest of punchers, to be a mindless weapon of destruction.' It's a pretty standard heroes journey, in other words. Plus the comics have had both female Iron Fists *and* other people taking up the Iron Fist from Danny, so it's hardly anything new or shocking. It's just an interesting twist.

[JudicatorPrime]

Finn still looks like he's never seen the inside of a gym. He's more Pillsbury Doughboy than Iron Fist.

There's that. And I can see why not everyone is a fan of Finn Jones in general. After two seasons plus the Defenders, I still don't feel like he'd make his way out of a brown paper bag, let alone the elite warrior caste of K'un-Lun. I'd probably recast him and Misty Knight. Don't get me wrong, I love Simone Missick, I just don't like her for this role. Nicole Beharie, on the other hand, would have been perfect.

[Tien Long]

Hey all. A couple of thoughts:

His sensei and not his Sifu? I clearly remember in season 1 when Danny and Coleen spared and Colleen count not lay a fist on him. Iron Fist is a kung fu style and Colleen studies a Japanese style. In the comics, she is a samurai at heart.

I think Danny was being respectful. There are proper terms in all of martial arts and that's how I saw Danny, being respectful.

Why and what techniques did she teach him. Mostly what I saw was the Danny enduring being hit until his leg healed and it got stronger. Then they wanted to make them equal in skill in season 2 but that was not the case in season one. Still we all saw that in this series, literally anyone can be Iron Fist. You just need a little blood, and old bowl and a special tattoo needles. That is all that it takes. In this series the Iron Fist can be given to anyone with the show's process.

I can't say that Colleen taught Danny any specific technique. Again, in terms of martial skill, Colleen didn't go through Danny's hard work. I acknowledge that. However, I feel that Danny saw something in Colleen saw that he didn't see in himself, that perhaps goes beyond mere training. She possessed a calmness that Danny didn't. Indeed, I knew something was up when he gave a wry smile while pounding that metal door in the first episode. Thus, Danny showed humility and knew that he wasn't ready to take back the Iron Fist (which makes sense to me. He may still be dealing with anger issues from the previous season).

And for me, Danny's humility, that's his greatest strength. And quite honestly, that's the greatest strength of any martial artist. To be humble, to know that you aren't ready, to yield and be willing to listen and learn from all, regardless of their background. I said it before, I'll say it again, that showing in episode 8, when he said that Colleen should take the Iron Fist, made me proud to be an Iron Fist fan.

Can anyone be an iron fist? As has been mentioned there have been people who have stolen Danny's Iron Fist, whether it was Junzo Mutoh (I was just as pained as anyone else when Danny didn't get that Iron Fist power back during the end of the Iron Fist/Wolverine miniseries) or Davos in the TV series. However, what makes Colleen different from me is that his fist wasn't stolen. Danny made the call. It was his decision. He saw something in Colleen that made her worthy of the Iron Fist. As far as I'm concerned, that's good enough for me. (And I still say IF Season 3, he'll get it back. Heck, I think he did already get it back.)

So, not everyone can be the Iron Fist. It has to be done in the proper way. But................maybe there's more than one proper way.

[Tien Long]

As for other concerns on this thread:

- I said it a long time ago in regards to Danny's ethnicity, I was fine either way with the casting. A white man who bridges racial divides and finds acceptance as an outsider in a culture that can be very closed off to outsiders. An Asian/Asian-American man who shows character depth while keeping his roots with a culture that can be so close yet so far. Depending on the casting, either one of those messages could have been seen. And either one of them is a beautiful message.

As someone who's seen first hand what it could be like when Asians close off and deny their cultures to others, I support Danny being white. False equivalencies be damned, denial to others, regardless of who's doing it, breeds resentment and bitterness. Being open, letting others participate, this isn't stealing. It's learning, understanding, and eventually acceptance. Danny fighting for K'un Lun and his home, that shows that though we may not look the same, we can still care for those who are different.

So yes, I support a white Danny Rand.

As someone who has seen when Asians have been denied access, I supported Danny being Asian or Asian-American. I know what Marjorie Liu and Chloe Bennet talk about. There's been a long history of yellowface and whitewashing in media. I choke up a little bit when I think of individuals like Anna May Wong. In general, Asians (especially Asian men) have a long history of being perceived as weird, exotic, and sometimes creepy folks in the background who made white people feel uncomfortable. I'll be very honest, during the love scenes between Danny and Colleen in Iron Fist season 2, there were moments when I wished that Danny was an Asian male. You see, we never get the girl in TV or the movies. We never get with the white girl and yeah we especially never get with the Asian girl.

So yes, I supported an Asian Danny Rand.

Ultimately, whoever the role went to, I'd only hope that they'd play Danny properly. And that we could see that either way is a way forward.

[DragonsChi]

As for other concerns on this thread:

- I said it a long time ago in regards to Danny's ethnicity, I was fine either way with the casting. A white man who bridges racial divides and finds acceptance as an outsider in a culture that can be very closed off to outsiders. An Asian/Asian-American man who shows character depth while keeping his roots with a culture that can be so close yet so far. Depending on the casting, either one of those messages could have been seen. And either one of them is a beautiful message.

As someone who's seen first hand what it could be like when Asians close off and deny their cultures to others, I support Danny being white. False equivalencies be damned, denial to others, regardless of who's doing it, breeds resentment and bitterness. Being open, letting others participate, this isn't stealing. It's learning, understanding, and eventually acceptance. Danny fighting for K'un Lun and his home, that shows that though we may not look the same, we can still care for those who are different.

So yes, I support a white Danny Rand.

As someone who has seen when Asians have been denied access, I supported Danny being Asian or Asian-American. I know what Marjorie Liu and Chloe Bennet talk about. There's been a long history of yellowface and whitewashing in media. I choke up a little bit when I think of individuals like Anna May Wong. In general, Asians (especially Asian men) have a long history of being perceived as weird, exotic, and sometimes creepy folks in the background who made white people feel uncomfortable. I'll be very honest, during the love scenes between Danny and Colleen in Iron Fist season 2, there were moments when I wished that Danny was an Asian male. You see, we never get the girl in TV or the movies. We never get with the white girl and yeah we especially never get with the Asian girl.

So yes, I supported an Asian Danny Rand.

Ultimately, whoever the role went to, I'd only hope that they'd play Danny properly. And that we could see that either way is a way forward.

Long,

I want you to know that I fully understand and to a degree support your feelings on this issue. I can also Identify with them. So regardless of my stance on S2 Iron Fist know that as a minority myself I am right there with.

My major beef on IS2 is when the decision was made to cast Finn Jones Marvel/Disney/Lobe/Whoever else should have went all in and stood by their choice. They should have even tried harder to show why Danny Rand is a good character, not a white savior, and Finn Jones was the man for the job. Even Finn Jones himself should have been spending less time going to concerts, to beaches, and posting up art photos on his instagram, and instead enrolled himself into a hard core martial arts class. However, none of that happen. That is what I am mostly upset about.

Iron Fist S2 took the easy route and in doing so they cheapened the mythology and multiple characterizations of characters Even the fact that the fist has been taken before in the comics does not change that. Since the way it was done in the show came across as uninventive and incredibly weak. In the comics each time it was done there was a process and actual weight behind it. Season two did not have that. And that is just one thing, there are quite a few others that demonstrate that the production team do not care about the character. In the end their final product displays that and why the reviews are still over all poor.

[ed2962]

I haven't seen the new season yet but the D@C and Comisgate crowds are in full blown hissy fit mode, so it did some things right at least.

Really? What was their objection?

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

As for other concerns on this thread:

- I said it a long time ago in regards to Danny's ethnicity, I was fine either way with the casting. A white man who bridges racial divides and finds acceptance as an outsider in a culture that can be very closed off to outsiders. An Asian/Asian-American man who shows character depth while keeping his roots with a culture that can be so close yet so far. Depending on the casting, either one of those messages could have been seen. And either one of them is a beautiful message.

As someone who's seen first hand what it could be like when Asians close off and deny their cultures to others, I support Danny being white. False equivalencies be damned, denial to others, regardless of who's doing it, breeds resentment and bitterness. Being open, letting others participate, this isn't stealing. It's learning, understanding, and eventually acceptance. Danny fighting for K'un Lun and his home, that shows that though we may not look the same, we can still care for those who are different.

So yes, I support a white Danny Rand.

As someone who has seen when Asians have been denied access, I supported Danny being Asian or Asian-American. I know what Marjorie Liu and Chloe Bennet talk about. There's been a long history of yellowface and whitewashing in media. I choke up a little bit when I think of individuals like Anna May Wong. In general, Asians (especially Asian men) have a long history of being perceived as weird, exotic, and sometimes creepy folks in the background who made white people feel uncomfortable. I'll be very honest, during the love scenes between Danny and Colleen in Iron Fist season 2, there were moments when I wished that Danny was an Asian male. You see, we never get the girl in TV or the movies. We never get with the white girl and yeah we especially never get with the Asian girl.

So yes, I supported an Asian Danny Rand.

Ultimately, whoever the role went to, I'd only hope that they'd play Danny properly. And that we could see that either way is a way forward.

gotta admit this made me swell up in side .