Erik Larsen Hates the new Ms. Marvel's Costume

[ExodusCloak]

For the record I'm in the apathic camp towards Ms. Marvels costume. I thinks she is good character overall but her suit I can take it or leave it.

But this tweet has to much truth to it.



And it happens even here way to often than it should.

Go look at his facebook he backtracked on the Kamala costumed claiming he confused Carol with Kamala due to the name change. Yet he posted a picture of Kamala. It's embarrassing.

[Trident]

Go look at his facebook he backtracked on the Kamala costumed claiming he confused Carol with Kamala due to the name change. Yet he posted a picture of Kamala. It's embarrassing.

That's interesting but it doesn't matter to me who he meant. The guy had an opinion wether I, you or anyone else agreed with him I don't think there is a need to behave in the manner several have.

[Ceebiro]

All of this makes me wonder if Larsen is just a guy who has difficulty articulating what it is he means. When I read that vocal minority bit, I knew it would lead him into hot water - it was too easy to be misconstrued as meaning women.

It is a shame he felt the need to leave Twitter.

Anyway, I agree with whoever said it before. I think it's worth it to lock the thread, especially that it's so focused on a creator who currently has nothing to do with Marvel Comics. If the discussion was just about Ms Marvel's costume, great.

[ExodusCloak]

That's interesting but it doesn't matter to me who he meant. The guy had an opinion wether I, you or anyone else agreed with him I don't think there is a need to behave in the manner several have.

We've talked about this, he can have an opinion but it doesn't mean freedom from critique. He indirectly insulted several creators via their works on a public forum. He threw garbage into the twittersphere and it came right back and hit him in the face. It's how twitter works.

All of this makes me wonder if Larsen is just a guy who has difficulty articulating what it is he means. When I read that vocal minority bit, I knew it would lead him into hot water - it was too easy to be misconstrued as meaning women.

We're lucky his job isn't to convey story and context via an artistic medium so.

[Cold Water]

There is a responsibility that goes with social media, especially when your work is out there to be viewed by the public. Unfortunately, you'really held to different standards than others. It is best just to bite your tongue and keep your mouth shut when it comes to opinions on the work of others in the same, or similar, field of work as you.
Had he done this, he could still be enjoying whatever there is to enjoy about Twitter.

[cranger]

I do think that the reactions to his comments were at times over the top, but it's the way he worded it...he did himself no favors in how he positioned his stance. I hate twitter outrage and all that, but he should have known to make his stance clearer and perhaps have mentioned some male examples and not labeled women as the "vocal minority".

...

His stance basically boiled down to "the girls need to stay in bathing suits!!!!!"

I agree that his wording opened the door for some people to take offense and all, but I think he made a very good point that got overlooked, and that it is it has little to do with the actual costumes these characters were wearing and more with the style of the artists. You could take any of these practical costumes and the artists whose drawing are often used to show how bad the costumes were could still manage to sexualize and exploit them in the same way, and in the same way you could have kept the old costumes and had them drawn by these new artists (well, I will keep it to Spider-Woman and Batgirl to be safe) and those old costumes would not come of as sexualized or exploitative.

But yes, he definitely dug himself a hole by arguing with a mob that really had no intent on a discussion.

[Trident]

We've talked about this, he can have an opinion but it doesn't mean freedom from critique. He indirectly insulted several creators via their works on a public forum. He threw garbage into the twittersphere and it came right back and hit him in the face. It's how twitter works.



We're lucky his job isn't to convey story and context via an artistic medium so.

There is NO excuse for poor behavior on both sides. And it's farily clear that at a certain point the guy felt he was being attacked and then tried too recover to explain further what was meant only for the same people to just twist what he said even further.

The conversation on both sides is very sad an unappealing but again I think those to quick to judgment on a personal level and those who can't handle difference's in opinion created the situation to become what it did.

Despite the fact that he is a creator in the industry he should be able to say what he does not like and let it alone. Anyone can pull multiple "tweets" from other creators who tweeting at him who are guilty of the same thing only no one has "combated" them about it. They were taking a moral high ground when in actually they were standing in the same filith.

[cyberhubbs]

I don't think Larsen woulda minded if folks had by and large agreed with his opinion. That's why creators join Twitter and Facebook, to socialize with fans and broaden their readership. So he doesn't have to NOT say anything, but he shouldn't be surprised when he does say something and someone is there to disagree.

[hawkeyefan]

For the record I'm in the apathic camp towards Ms. Marvels costume. I thinks she is good character overall but her suit I can take it or leave it.

But this tweet has to much truth to it.



And it happens even here way to often than it should.

I agree with you. But I only became aware afterward of the initial discussion that led to his comments on Ms. Marvel's costume. And his stance, especially the way he portrayed it, is pretty hard to defend.

Any pros who commented to him seem to have done so in a respectful manner.

The rest of the twitter folk....well, there really is no reasoning with them, that's true.

At this point, it's hard to feel bad for or surprised about people getting swarmed on twitter for their comments.

I agree that his wording opened the door for some people to take offense and all, but I think he made a very good point that got overlooked, and that it is it has little to do with the actual costumes these characters were wearing and more with the style of the artists. You could take any of these practical costumes and the artists whose drawing are often used to show how bad the costumes were could still manage to sexualize and exploit them in the same way, and in the same way you could have kept the old costumes and had them drawn by these new artists (well, I will keep it to Spider-Woman and Batgirl to be safe) and those old costumes would not come of as sexualized or exploitative.

But yes, he definitely dug himself a hole by arguing with a mob that really had no intent on a discussion.

Your portrayal of his stance is far more nuanced. I know he tried to clarify, but from many of the tweets that he made that I saw, his stance was far from articulate. I was initially on his side in the sense that he had an opinion and is entitled to it. I can't stand the twitter causes that people rally to. But upon reading further, it's no surprise. And his stance is pretty flawed.

He did get mobbed, and that stinks, but he should have known. I don't think it was misconstrued that his comments about "vocal minority" were directed at women. I read it that way and I'm usually willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

If it was a "vocal minority" then the comments would have been few. Clearly, he misjudged.

[SickAlice]

Grrrrr! Someone's opinion is different than mine let's all call that guys stupid and be angry together!

Whose with me!

The above is pretty much what the articles and this thread is about. And only a few recongzie how silly it is and has become that regardless of how you feel on either side you have to find tune everything that is said so you do not offend the over sensitive.

No kidding. And here I thought this site was taking a stand against organized stoning of creators for their tastes. It's no surprise how cumbersome that is though in age that justifies executing cartoonists for their opinions I guess, still no less sad to watch.

[ExodusCloak]

It's no surprise how cumbersome that is though in age that justifies executing cartoonists for their opinions I guess, still no less sad to watch.

You are aware that instead of executing him, people/other creators actually engaged him and exposed the gaping flaws in his argument. That's the exact opposite of what your post just stated.

Being a cartoonist does not mean freedom from critique.

[Trident]

I agree with you. But I only became aware afterward of the initial discussion that led to his comments on Ms. Marvel's costume. And his stance, especially the way he portrayed it, is pretty hard to defend.
.

I disagree if it is read in the total context of what he was overalls trying to say.

But hey instead of me assuming your some "feminazi" , ignorant, or deserve to be bashed because I disagree I'm going to continue talking to you like a actual person who has feelings and respect our differences in opinion in hopes to learn something and/or expand my personal world view.

[SickAlice]

You are aware that instead of executing him, people/other creators actually engaged him and exposed the gaping flaws in his argument. That's the exact opposite of what your post just stated.

Being a cartoonist does not mean freedom from critique.

It means freedom to have critique and of a fictional characters fashion. What I'm reading is he was harassed on his Twitter account to the point of being driven off it over this. This is ridiculous.

[ExodusCloak]

It means freedom to have critique and of a fictional characters fashion. What I'm reading is he was harassed on his Twitter account to the point of being driven off it over this. This is ridiculous.

It means freedom to have an opinion on fictional characters fashion and other artists works but at the same time it means that opinion is up for critique because those writers and whoever reads their works have a right to engage that opinion and other artists have a right to defend their work. He's by no means an expert particularly if he as others put it is struggling to come up with a way to express his thoughts in a clear way and that's why a heck of a lot of people are reading it in a negative light.
What happened was he screamed his opinion over twitter, insulted a few creators and afterwards he stopped talking about comics and went to talk about art in society in regards to people being oversensitive particularly in universities. Even if you don't want to make any assumptions of what he was talking about it's very easy to read that in a very bad light.

[Luck911]

I never liked new ms Marvel costume but thanks to this thread at least it makes sense now and i have spent 5 min of my life researching Burkini.

I will say with stand out costume like Batgirl and Spider gwen it is safe to say ms marvel suit can be better