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  1. #1
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Default What Would It Have Taken To Make New Krypton Readable?

    So, I know we're all hot to argue about the new costumes and whether red underwear is a viable fashion choice and whether the upcoming movies will herald the apokolips or not (see what I did there?) but I thought, for fun, maybe we could all unite as a forum and discuss one of the most universally disliked story lines from recent memory; New Krypton.

    So the question is; what would it have taken to make that story readable? Different creative teams? Shorter running time? Leaving Superman in his own books? Different ending? Was it anything that could have been saved at all, or was the premise itself doomed from the beginning?

    Seems to me that tempers have been running a little hot these last few days, maybe this will help us all blow off some steam?
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  2. #2
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    As an idea, I think it was brilliant as it originally started. I liked that DC was going full balls out and challenging the status quo in such a big way. A big sci fi concept, whilst opening up kryptonian mythology in a way we hadn't seen since the bronze age. I was on board until the Codename: Patriot mini event smack dab in the middle. It then became clear the emperor had no clothes and that they were merely treading water. Then they rushed the conclusion and put all the toys back into the box in the most hackneyed and cliched way possible.

    Oh, and taking Superman out of his own books for two frickin years? Unfogivable.

  3. #3
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    Of course, I would have preferred if the whole thing never happened and I dropped this early on along with SUPERMAN and ACTION. But here's what would have kept me buying.

    Split SUPERMAN and ACTION each in half--with New Krypton occupying one half of each book. Secret Origins would have occupied the other half of ACTION--which would have kept Johns and Frank in ACTION--the main attrACTION for me at the time. Split in half, Secret Origins would have taken 12 months to tell. As I would have had to buy ACTION for that, that would have kept me following the New Krypton story, too. The rest of SUPERMAN could have been used for the Mon-El story or the Nightwing and Flamebird story. Or give one of them their own limited series and let them prove themselves on their own without hijacking Superman's books.

    Wrap up the New Krypton story in a year (24 half issues total) and bring Superman back to full action at that point.

    I liked about half of Secret Origins, but the real problem with it is that it came out too late. It would have been better if it had been done sooner to set up the stories to come. Instead it felt like Johns was imposting an order on the stories he had already written--and I imagine his delays caused delays for Gary Frank, as well.

    Edit: One other thing. The death of Jonathan Kent was rushed--there really was no time given Superman or the readers to grieve his loss. They could have milked that story--but because they were so concerned with Brainiac and New Krypton, the death of Clark's father didn't get the attention it deserved. That could have been its own arc in either SUPERMAN or ACTION.
    Last edited by Jim Kelly; 03-14-2015 at 06:52 PM.

  4. #4
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    I loved every concept used, but it was a big case of too many cooks in the kitchen. It inflated too much, too.

    You want Superman to move off Earth and live on New Krypton for a while - fine. He can be "missing" in all the other DC books but his story should still be told in the one titled "Superman". If you wanted to know what he was up to, you had to buy World of New Krypton (itself quite good). Meanwhile in Superman, Robinson was playing with Mon-El. Also decent ... not good enough for the core book. And Rucka and Trautmann did Nightwing & Flamebird in Action, also interesting premise told well enough ... but then on top of that there's Supergirl, which is essentially must read. And Johns with Adventure Comics, too. And Robinson was trying to bring back every one-off Superman foe, random hero from DC history, and Kirby's Guardian clone, too.

    So too many cooks - leading to too many big story beats that are essential to the plot happening in too many places and under different pens so they didn't feel cohesive or like they had a head of momentum or clear, slick structure. Too many cooks, too many books.

    If New Krypton had gone directly from Brainiac to a more streamlined New Krypton (say just alternating between Superman & Supergirl), and then the World of New Krypton stuff happened in the main Superman book, and Action alternated the "World Without Superman" stuff it might've transitioned smoother into Last Stand.

    I think it also dragged out a little too long. There was a lot of story worth exploring but one year storylines always, always, always engender reader fatigue. And New Krypton was like two years long.
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  5. #5
    Fantastic Member Tra-EL's Avatar
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    I loved he entire concept from the beginning and was onboard. When it came to it though, it seemed evident in the middle of the run that they were pulling the plug but still left it dying a long death. I was reading Nightwing and Flamebird with the SUPERMAN title on the front and that got old, especially buying the crossover books. By the end, I was ready for it to be over and couldn't wait for something new and fresh. People were mad because of the rush ending. I was over it at that point. All in all, I loved World of New Krypton the most. I loved that world fleshed out with Superman working and having relationship with his own people and where he fit in guild - wise was pretty cool so World of New Krypton ended up being enjoyable to me.
    Last edited by Tra-EL; 03-14-2015 at 07:22 PM.

  6. #6
    Mighty Member Joe Acro's Avatar
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    I loved New Krypton. I thought Superman adjusting to life on a new Krypton as a soldier for the government was a refreshing change of pace for the character. I appreciated his skepticism toward Zod and how that animosity was playing out. I liked seeing Krypton working to build itself up--dealing with the struggles of a fledgling planet with minimal resources. I thought it was fascinating.

    I will say I didn't enjoy the buildup to it quite as much. I thought the Earth banning all Kryptonians except Supes was a bit wonky. I thought New Krypton basically being formed the same way as a Fortress was silly. But after that buildup, the actual series was quite enjoyable. The conclusion of the entire plotline, however, was terrible.

  7. #7
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Not taking Superman off his titles would have helped keep up interest during the duration. In that same vein, dropping the idea of Clark indefinitely staying on New Krypton as well would have helped. Being away from his wife for that prolonged period that he was did not fly with me. He should have commuted back and forth. Far from a long "drive" for Superman. You could have kept the mini-series to specifically show Superman's New Krypton's adventures, but he also should have been a key feature of Action and Superman, with Nightwing, Flamebird, and Mon-El helping him in the respective titles. Then of course there's the ending that literally hit the reset button on each and every concept the story had introduced.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 03-14-2015 at 07:29 PM.

  8. #8
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    I think one missed oppurtunity was in making the Kryptonians completley united behind their new leaders, and in having General Lane go full General Ross without having any major adversaries to his ways of thinking. Zod coming to power should have had some high placed opposition, even if the city remembers him as a hero. Imagine a New Krypton where Clark serving under Zod was a major political move to keep everyone focused on unity, giving them another reason to work together in spite of their animosity. Or a world where Lane is opposed by Waller or someone who insisted that while they need an insurance policy, they also can't afford to immediately make an enemy of the Kryptonians.
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  9. #9
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    Read some issues, but it wasn't too much new reader friendly. I tracked some while I was reading supergirl; no superman on action or superman book was too weird.

    the end just destroyed pre new 52 superman. all those issues just to blow the planet, you gotta punkd

  10. #10
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    It needed better planning. It did drag on too long and taking Superman out of his books was a huge mistake.

    To me the story made no sense. Superman should have really known better than to put a traumatized super-powered population on Earth. It wasn't going to work, especially after Zod tried to take over. I really like when the movie had him settle the Kandor survivors on a new world.

    The biggest sin was the bad guys won: Luthor and Gen Lane got off scott free.

  11. #11
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    I think it would have taken almost a complete redesign to fix it. I don't know if the writers were all turning n some of their worst work or if there was something in their collaborating that didn't mesh but I just remember not enjoying most of the issues without really being able to put my finger on the why.

    The stuff seemed disjointed. Robinson seemed to think he was Jack Kirby using Superman as a foot in the door to develop or revive his own characters. Nightwing and Flamebird wandered off into the weird with all this quasi-Kryptonian creation myth. Lois and Jimmy investigated governmental conspiracies. Captain Atom had some role that never really was fleshed out. And while all this was going on Superman was on the sidelines playing soldier on Krypton. Oh and the Legion were all hidden throughout the story in undercover roles.

    There was also way too much retconning. Lucy Lane's prior character and her marriage were jetisoned to give us Superwoman. We were given a Jim Harper clone whose history was wildly at odds with anything we'd seen since the Crisis. We got a Science Police that seemed to be the forerunner of the one in the Legion suddenly replacing the Metropolis SCU. Ok the last is not technically a retcon, but it felt like one in the sense this new police team seemed designed to fill a role that the SCU already filled.

    And all the above combined to push the usual cast out of the books. Lois appeared but sans Clark and in an almost background role. Jimmy was off-panel most of the time until she shows up as a deus-ex-machine to reveal crucial ploy info then fade back into the scenery. The rest of the Planet staff if seen at all were pert of crowd scenes (except Lana and maybe Cat in Supergirl).

    My fix would have started with letting the story build in the background after Kandor was rescued. Maybe it remains "bottled" with tensions starting over whether Superman is protecting the city or preventing its enlargement. Maybe it is enlarged somewhere on earth but with the Brainiac field making it hard to come and go for the Kandorians.

    I'd keep Mon-El in his role as Superman's stand-in but remove all the Science Police supporting cast. Mon-El would basically be Clark's cousin (Harry's illegitimate kid from his war days) and staying with Lois or Martha as a cover, he'd be interacting with Clark's usual supporting cast. The Nightwing/Flamebird stuff would also remain but minus the Kryptonian gods stuff. It would be strictly tracking down the "escaped" Zoners who were still developing powers (so they aren't a buch of "super"men). I'd scale back the General lane stuff and mainly hold off using him until there is any conflict between humanity and the Kryptonians.

    Superman would be on New Krypton where he would be a lightning rod for controversy. He'd have followers who wanted to be Supermen- if not on Erath then on planets like Rann, Thanager, etc;... And he'd have detractors who see him as someone who isn't a "real Kryptonian" having been raised by Terrans on a primitive backwater. And then there'd be Zod who is remembered as a hero in Kandor an whose followers refuse to believe ever tried to conquer Krypton.

    And the story would end with Kandor still intact but in some way cut off from regular interaction with Earth. Maybe General Lane or Brainiac manages to shunt it through space to a red sun system. Maybe it's re-bottled. But I wouldn't kill them all off.

  12. #12
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    It sounds like to me, as someone who hasn't read it but heard a lot about it online, that it was a bunch of awesome ideas executed sloppily. If it had been an extremely well-planned weekly it would have worked amazingly, IMHO. And like many of you said, if the politics were better written.

    In the end, it was kind of Superman's Clone Saga- a cool story idea dragged in too many directions for too long that turned off fans and casuals alike. But like the Clone Saga, I could very easily see it being revisited one day and the benefit of hindsight making it brilliant, like the Ultimate Clone Saga. So I'd say it's a worthwhile part of Superman history, but the stories themselves apparently suffered for it.

    Not to mention offing the planet and having Superman walk around America was a dumb way to conclude the story. Totally fumbled that one, DC.

  13. #13
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Honestly I think the story didn't have much punch past the title, "New Krypton." I think a refocusing of the story was needed. Also less predictability in the way the story unfolded. Now it's been a few years so correct me if any of my ideas were actually used in the story.

    I think it should have been less "what if the Kandorians finally enlarged" and more "what would happen if the world was introduced to 100,000 Supermen over night?" It would be 100,000 Bar-el's and Lilo's from All Star Superman. A whole race of people just as wonderful as Superman who are almost compelled to make better and advance whatever the come in contact with. A whole society of perfect people being faced with a wildly imperfect planet in front of them, and Kal-el who has seemingly been playing in the mud this whole time.

    Then the divide in the people of Earth would happen. The X-Men style racism. Political debates. Taking heads of state on tours near the fire falls. Whole continues seriously considering secession from the Earth. The promise of cures for everything waiting for them in space with the perfect people.

    Superman not really in the middle of fighting between two worlds, but in between the violent culture clash of two worlds. The possibility of one world steamrolling the other on pure richness of culture thinking. Should they mesh? Can they mesh? Has tomorrow come early for the man of steel?

    When it all goes south, it shouldn't be a question of "how do we stop 100,000 pretty powerful people", but instead "how do we stop 100,000". No one's ever planned for this sort of thing, and it seems impossible. How do you stop a world full of individuals who could crack the planet in half? How do you stop a race of people who are literally known as the brightest in creation. It should've been an uphill battle, and it's solution should have been very very VERY clever.

    Leave the magic and recreation of gods out of it. Even leave out the galactic warring out of it. Maybe have the Guardians looking on with the whole copes at the ready for a last ride against the Kryptonians if need be. Whole sections of space are shut down. The outcome of the Earth/Krypton negotiations could shape the face of the galaxy.

    Lastly, Superman has to do something clever to win the day and make sure as many people as possible get out of this ok. Wheeling and dealing, sharp talking, fast moving, and good timing will be Superman's tools against this situation. In the end something better than blowing them all up (yet just as sad if not more so) would need to be done. Maybe something tragic that replaces Superman's quest to re enlarge them.

    Basically don't pull any punches and make more clever. It's Twilight of the Superheroes with it's tentative peace and changing world landscape. It's a microscope on what Superman has actually accomplished. Is he the ultimate man or the ultimate procrastinator? Also don't drag the story out too long.

    Again I don't remember what was done in fine detail so some of this may have actually happened. Also this sounds more like what I would personally like rather than "what would make it not suck." So take it for what you will

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member kingaliencracker's Avatar
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    I'm surprised no one has mentioned Geoff Johns basically abandoning (for lack of a better word) the story midway through after he essentially created it. For me Johns was most suited to write the story from start to finish because he's at his best with action-driven, mass-character story lines. I think what ultimately happened when Johns left was that neither Robinson nor Rucka were very interested in writing Superman stories, so instead they did their best to write Superman not really being Superman or just didn't write him at all (in Rucka's case anyway). Obviously taking Superman out of his own titles, then placing him in an unnecessary mini series that wasn't very good was a bad move on DC's part and crippled the core titles for some time afterwards. The Superwoman reveal was bad, as if they took a very random, very uninteresting supporting character and completely flipped her, instead of just creating an entirely new character or using another character in the role that made more sense.

    So keep Johns, keep the story in the titles, and better utilization of characters (long story short).

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Strangely, I actually read most of the run..I was mooching round library one day, and four collected volumes were on shelf. So for first time for ages, actually read a modern in continuity run. Try to avoid that...certainly since Wonder Woman became his main squeeze.

    It was okay-ish. Like most comics better writing would have helped it always does.

    But also, I think this is one of those "ventures" where a top editor would have insisted on a really good "end plan" right at the outset: the aim should have been to make a really long term change to Superman in a way that elevated his standing in his own fictional world.

    If the writers could not deliver that change (and they didn't...at story's end nothing had really changed), then whole idea should have been vetoed.

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