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Thread: Gotham TV Show

  1. #1546
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyBone77 View Post
    Came across a post with a pretty out-there theory that Theo Galavan is spoilers:
    The Architect, Zachary Gate, from Batman: Gates of Gotham
    end of spoilers. Parts of it are a reach, but it's something to think about at least


    Whole article is here.
    Actually, that's exactly who I thought he could be when he talked about his family building Gotham and being "betrayed."

  2. #1547
    Mighty Member WeaponX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    You know Alfred, not liking magicians is pretty normal.

    So we can add incest to Theo and Tabitha's list of "charming" quirks?




    What exactly has Jerome done that can't be topped by the Joker or some other villain? Most of the stuff he pulled wasn't even his idea, it was someone else pulling the strings. He didn't break out of Arkham himself, he needed someone else to do that for him.
    So what if he tops it he's still just copying Jeromes act and the Joker isn't about carrying on someone else legacy he's to much of an Ego maniac for that. He would absolutely hate people associating him with someone else.

  3. #1548
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeaponX View Post
    So what if he tops it he's still just copying Jeromes act and the Joker isn't about carrying on someone else legacy he's to much of an Ego maniac for that. He would absolutely hate people associating him with someone else.
    How could people associate him with Jerome? Jerome didn't dress like a clown or use any clown like gimmicks in his murders. He could be any generic serial killer.

  4. #1549
    Veteran Member PretenderNX01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhudrew View Post
    This.

    Not a good sign when you're already repeating storylines in your second season.
    Not really bad either, Red Hood and Joker intersect in one of this origins so they're just pointing out that they are both symbols as much as specific people.


    Quote Originally Posted by kalorama View Post
    her saying that he's good in bed doesn't necessarily mean that she's slept with him herself. Girls talk, just like guys do. And I certainly wouldn't put it past her to say something like that just for shock value.
    That's what I thought but then at the end I really couldn't tell who Tabitha was jealous of, Barbara or Theo?
    Quote Originally Posted by cadet View Post
    I think the elephant in the room that they aren't even the same race is kind of a giveaway. Granted one could be adopted or half-siblings.
    Tabitha is light enough to play someone mixed, and if they're raised together they could just see themselves as siblings or the two looking that different is just casting two people who don't have to look alike since they aren't really related. Secret identities are kind of a staple of the genre, maybe Theo is just a guy who stole Theo's life.

    So Bruno Heller said they've actually considered if the Joker could be female in Gotham:
    http://comicbook.com/2015/10/06/goth...e-possibility/

    Stories with female Jokers include most recently, Flashpoint where Bruce was killed and Thomas was Batman and Martha was Joker. Before that the Tangent universe of Earth 9 had a gang of female Jokers who were vigilantes. The AmeComi Duela Dent is their Joker and Batman: Thrillkiller, where female Joker still had a thing for Harley Quinn:
    Last edited by PretenderNX01; 10-06-2015 at 02:23 PM.

  5. #1550
    Astonishing Member AJBopp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    How could people associate him with Jerome? Jerome didn't dress like a clown or use any clown like gimmicks in his murders. He could be any generic serial killer.
    Only the Joker is allowed to laugh.
    Why yes, I AM a Mark Goodson/Bill Toddman production.

  6. #1551
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Anyone think Jim getting at least some glimpse of Tabitha with Jerome will help clue him in onto what Theo is planning? It wasn't a good look, but it could stir up his instincts when he meets Galavan's sister...

  7. #1552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Anyone think Jim getting at least some glimpse of Tabitha with Jerome will help clue him in onto what Theo is planning? It wasn't a good look, but it could stir up his instincts when he meets Galavan's sister...
    She was wearing a mask and he was dosed with sleeping gas when he saw her. I doubt he'd recognize her.

  8. #1553
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    Well well, getting in late here as I always do, so where to start?

    I started out my reaction to this episode thinking what a giant FU the show just did to most of its viewers who were all so positive that Jerome was the Joker, including myself. I thought- no, I'm not going to stop watching because I'm stubborn but a lot of people will and that the show didn't just shoot itself in the foot but maybe in the head. I thought Jerome's father's last words were a PERFECT setup for the Joker, about how he was going to give kids nightmares and leave a legacy of madness. And then he died, and I rolled my eyes and went "Oh you've gotta be kidding me" and felt like a total idiot. Then I caught myself and went, no, I'm not an idiot. It's what any thinking person would have thought. The show just screwed everybody and how dare they!

    But now I've read everyone elses' comments and I've calmed down a bit. I've noted that there never was the moment I predicted where Bruce had an ominous foreboding feeling about the future when confronted with Jerome, as would be expected on this show when he meets the person who's going to be his arch enemy. And I don't agree that this is a second red herring because I think the Red Hood gang thing is still in play- they are still out there and just haven't been shown in a while, still a vehicle for whoever takes up Jerome's mantle to follow the red-hooded path toward the inevitable acid bath. That could be a LONG time coming, because the Joker and Batman are likely to appear close together in time.

    And whoever the true Joker turns out to be now, well I think the show has set its bar pretty high. Jerome was amazing. The man who replaces him has got his work cut out for him and had better be every actor who's ever played the Joker all wrapped up into one. I'll stick with the show, but it's not going to get away with anymore dirty tricks like this.

  9. #1554
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    BTW, another couple of observations. Theo and Tabitha now remind me heavily of Top Dollar and his half-sister in "The Crow" (the movie, not the comic). They were half-siblings with the same father, one clearly white and one clearly Asian, and they were lovers. It's not a new thing.

    And I'm just being nit-picky here, but in the last episode Jim got beaten to a bloody pulp and half to death, and in this one he had magically healed to just a few bruises. What wonders are worked in fiction.

  10. #1555
    Incredible Member Majesty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeaponX View Post
    Yeah, no. First Gotham is already in desperate need of Batman. There are criminal organization operating with impunity, random psychos killing people be the score daily, and a completely corrupt GCPD that can't get anything done within the rules.

    Second there isn't anywhere for the real joker to take Jeromes act to the next level besides putting on some makeup. Jerome already was the force of chaos that revals in his evil that the Joker is. So really this relagates the real Joker to being a knock off of the original. Sure Jerome didn't take up the name or the clown look but everything that really makes the Joker the Joker Jerome already did. Like another poster put it so well if your going to use a red herring you better make sure it's not better than your actual answer. And I have a hard time thinking of a better back story or an actor that will play the young Joker better than the kid that played Jerome.

    Also I realize the show isn't going to set up every major Batman villian but they are going to need to stop with these fake outs they have already used it with the Red Hood and now the Joker and it's already tiresome. You won't find many fans investing in your show if you keep devoting episodes of content to red herrings. It's basically says to the viewer yeah you wasted your time watching those episodes.

    Oh and the Joker as a symbol is a horrible idea. There is a reason every serial killer ever has failed to start the blood revolution so many crave. It's because most people even the evil ones don't set out to be the bad guy it's not something that anyone really sets as a goal. And the few that do are so egotistical they are never going to take up someone else's monicker they want credit. That's why many get caught they can't stand not taking credit for their actions not getting the fame they deserve.

    Gotham is not in need of a "Batman" yet. Jim Gordon pretty much can get the job done to an extent, him and his partner. It's nowhere near as BAD as it's going to get.


    When Gotham needs Batman is when Gordon has NO ONE to depend on, NOWHERE to go, and NO OPTIONS left.

    He still has all of those things and can find a way to make things work. That city is gonna get to the point where he's completely helpless.

    And for the record, after the night of interviews and hints dropped by Gotham on twitter I'm 99% sure that Jerome is the real Joker, but that they "killed" him early so they could focus on the other villains, it's "Rise of the Villains" and if Jerome was in every episode, he'd steal the show. Now that's good for his greatness, but at the same time they'd overdo it and seem to be just going for ratings. You always leave them "wanting more" and when Jerome comes back, it's gonna be a BIG deal. But right now they'll focus on Nigma and Penguin, etc.


    But here's why Jerome is likely the Joker.


    Dr. Dulmacher told Fish Mooney in Season 1 that Resurrection was possible and could be done.

    That little tid bit right there means they can and likely will bring Jerome back whenever they want to.

    Heck, they could bring him back, he could change his name to "Jack Napier" and that would essentially be all that's needed.

    However what I will say is that Gotham has promised 'payoff' here, and that it's a larger story that's about to unfold. They also said that night that they didn't want to milk Jerome for the entire season and give you that 'gut punch' otherwise it looks like a ratings grab, so they did that 'now' to tell the larger story in the future. They basically said without saying that this is NOT the last we'll see of this. But as the season is the "Rise of the Villains" they need to focus on Penguin, Nigma, etc. Jerome will get his time again in the future.

    So right now I'm thinking Jerome will be back, BUT they will never "show" that it's him and will leave it for the audience to have to figure out with clues they leave.

    Remember, The Joker has no 'origin' so them bringing Jerome back but leaving you to guess if it's him or not is probably the best way they should go about it. It would leave enough mystery and anonimity to keep the Joker "mystery" alive, while still making people (that figured out it's Jerome) happy at the same time.. IF they caught the signs.

    Gotham on their twitter when responding to how Jerome could ever come back or if he was dead, responded with the gif of Jerome going "Oh you know..magic." Big Clue there.

    Then Cameron did an interview RIGHT after this show aired and it went like this

    Interviewer: We didn't see that coming!

    Cameron: It's quite the punchline, huh?

    Interviewer: Is Jerome really dead?

    Cameron: I don't know! It's a comic book world, and sometimes in a comic book world, people don't stay dead for very long! [Laughs.] But I wouldn't be able to tell you if something was going to happen later this season or in a season to come.



    He also went into detail on "finding" the Joker's laugh and the kid just GETS IT.

    Interviewer: Talking about the comedy — that laugh…

    Camron: For my first episode [in the first season], there was this process that took place for a few weeks over the Christmas break. I found out I got the role, and before I started filming, I locked myself into my apartment and I was doing it every day, all day. Neighbors probably thought I was going to kill somebody, or that I was killing somebody, I think; they still look at me pretty funny.

    Between the first and second season, what was important to me was that it never sounded the same depending on the context, because the laugh is reflection on what he's feeling, and how he's feeling. Sometimes it's smaller and more maniacal, and sometimes it's pure glee. It's trying to find the different levels, and that is something I did learn from a Joker, from Mark Hamill's portrayal [in the 1990s animated Batman series].

    Every time he does the laugh, it's totally different, and totally reflective of the context of what's going on. That inspired me, I wanted to make sure I did that as well.



    THIS KID IS BRILLIANT.. AND he gets it.. there is NO WAY he ISN'T the Joker in a world where it's been established that Resurrection is possible. THIS however was just done so that they could bring Jerome back under guise without out and out 'saying' that it's him. Because why would they? It's a mystery.. as the Joker SHOULD be ^_^ They aren't gonna get this kid just to waste him after 3 episodes. But his arc is a greater one that will take place over a couple.

    AS the Joker would say "NOBODY CAN DO MY SHTICK BETTER THAN ME!!" and Jerome is that guy. So he'll be back, but the writers are probably not gonna make it obvious and you'll have to figure it out. Be it the Court of Owls taking his body and resurrecting him or otherwise.

    Him being ressurected would make a lot of sense for two reasons.

    1) Because he's the Joker
    2) Because they could bring him back "better" and much more durable. THIS makes perfect sense because otherwise... *ahem* ... HOW WOULD HE HAVE SURVIVED FALLING INTO A VAT OF ACID THAT WOULD HAVE KILLED ANYONE ELSE!?!?! It makes perfect sense actually. It would also explain why he's 'died' and 'came back' so many times, because he knows he's near invulnerable when it comes down to it.

    So as I said, everything is currently being set up for Jerome to BE the Joker, we'll just have to figure out when it's happening and catch the clues.

    Happy hunting!

    You can see the entire interview here: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/liv...onaghan-829088




    P.S. I don't think they'll make it as obvious as someone trying to pick up "Jerome's" mantle as a member of the Red Hood Gang, and 'seem' like it's gonna be that guy, only to have someone shoot him at the end of an episode and go "My line." However.... it would be extremely.. EXTREMELY epic.. if they did
    Last edited by Majesty; 10-07-2015 at 04:52 AM.

  11. #1556
    Astonishing Member AndrewCrossett's Avatar
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    I don't think we'll be seeing Jerome again, much as I wish we would. The powers that be have really gradually been throwing cold water on that idea, even since well before he died.

    The last segment indicated (pretty ham-fistedly) that he will inspire other psychos... but I doubt this show will ever give us a single man known as the Joker.

    At first I thought Theo and Jerome were faking his murder. I only started to doubt it when I saw Jerome's body being wheeled out of the theater in the custody of the police, and then saw him lying in the morgue. Pretty hard to fake your death when the coroner is cutting you up.

    Yes, Jerome would have been too over-the-top to be used in every episode like Penguin is. He would have to be a recurring villain, used occasionally to avoid becoming annoying to viewers. But damn, it's a shame to cut short such a good portrayal. Like I said, the writers had damn well better hope their reality can top their red herring.

  12. #1557
    Incredible Member Majesty's Avatar
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    I think that Gotham pulled a double red herring so they can sweep it from underneath us again. They aren't gonna confirm it though and will want you to feel it's one way or the other, till it happens in the show.

    In a world where resurrection is confirmed. They can and likely will bring back Jerome whenever they want.

    Not anytime particularly soon though.

  13. #1558

    Default Gotham thoughts of potential arcs?

    So I have recently been watching Gotham, i just have to say it's going to be a moderately slow process but i can wait I however think we need a wider arc of villains for the show so here my potential cast arcs for the show: (in order from my best to not as extraordinary)

    Mad hatter ( obviously has an insane amount of potential kidnapping or taking hostage of little girls (Alice) but what if lets say he takes a mob member's daughter or Fish mooney's secret weapon, even Gordan's wife? if they play this right it could be amazing.)

    Black Mask ( if were talking mobs and power you can see where I'm coming from.)

    Post-venom Bane (just to follow on s1ep5's story line viper-venom.)

    Anarchy (to emphasize on the corrupt state of Gotham + he is my fav Batman villian :). )

    What do you all think? i would like to know what characters you would have and all so yeah.
    Question of the day:
    Who is your favorite Batman villain of all time?

  14. #1559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majesty View Post
    I think that Gotham pulled a double red herring so they can sweep it from underneath us again. They aren't gonna confirm it though and will want you to feel it's one way or the other, till it happens in the show.

    In a world where resurrection is confirmed. They can and likely will bring back Jerome whenever they want.

    Not anytime particularly soon though.
    When did Gotham show a resurrection? Sure, certain characters have been thought to be dead, and returned, but I don't recall anyone that has been shown to be dead and returned. It would have been nice though to have a line from Leslie about his death being odd... "that particular stab wound shouldn't have been fatal". Kind of set up Jerome's return.

  15. #1560
    New and Improved hulahulk's Avatar
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    No character so far has/has been resurrected but I do see the above point about that doctor/Mooney conversation
    Last edited by hulahulk; 10-10-2015 at 03:13 PM.
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