Gotham TV Show

[tabo61]

Is the girl Nygma's in love with a character from the comics?

[Conch22]

Judge BamBam?! Really? Not sure if he's joking or not.

The widow looked suspiciously like Nichelle Nicholls. Couldn't find her credited so gonna assume I was mistaken.

Found Penguins mom fairly annoying this ep.

Was enjoyable despite a few nitpicks.

And Maria Mercedes Moon!

[PretenderNX01]

Is the girl Nygma's in love with a character from the comics?

Not that I know of. I thought her Christmas-y name could be a reference to Calendar Man or the Holiday Killer but I think they just wanted a cutesy name like Harley Quin has. In the comics Riddler has had a blonde henchwoman named Echo (Nina Damfino) along with another henchwoman named Query (Diedre Vance)

The widow looked suspiciously like Nichelle Nicholls. Couldn't find her credited so gonna assume I was mistaken.

I thought it was too! Turns out to be Phyllis Bash
http://www.tvrage.com/person/id-33858/Phyllis+Bash

And Maria Mercedes Moon!

That was interesting knowing Fish's name now I wonder how she got the nickname.

All the villains on this show really need to review the Rules for Evil Overlords list. Can't anyone just shoot somebody in the face and be done with it, instead of taking them prisoner and bringing them back to the Inner Sanctum for torture and inevitable escape? You disappoint me, Victor.

I assume he must be under orders to bring them in. Otherwise I think Victor enjoys killing people, he shot that one lady cop when she couldn't run so it's not like he has to have a kill be thrilling.

[LanternWolf]

Good episode. The case Gordon & Harvey works on was interesting. I have a bit of a soft spot for Nygma so I felt pretty satisfied with what happened to Flass.

Gordon asking for Penguin's help was cool. Penguin actually looks like he just wants Jim as a friend (of course not). I actually mouthed "Iceberg Lounge" when Penguin welcomed the "people" to his club.

Selena bashing Bruce just helps him further detach from people so he'll focus on finding his parents' killer.

Fish Mooney or Maria Mercedes Moon as it were, was a total badass in this episode. Butch's loyalty really has no bounds when it comes to her.

It still annoys me that Zsasz uses a gun instead of a knife.

[David Walton]

I don't buy into the ridiculous idea that Falcone has a guy like Bob on his payroll. Falcone is supposed to represent the old school gangster, which means if he lets Fish live, he cuts her fingers off so when she's walking around town everyone knows he's still the king. "Bob" is more in line with the emergent Gotham freak culture and has no place in Falcone's organization. Zsasz is okay, since he's pretty much Falcone's hyper-stylized Luca Brasi--a sadistic maniac who everyone's scared of, and only the don can keep him in control. When Falcone comes apart he'll come unhinged.

I like the Nygma stuff, the show's best use of a slow burn. It will be fun to see the classicaly spurned nerd get his revenge.

The GCPD continues to look comically corrupt, like these guys don't even know how to pretend they care. This is a department where Marnoni walks in and orders a cappucino and a witness is killed inside their their doors and no one freaking bats an eye. Bullock is the only corrupt cop who knows how to walk some kind of line, getting what he wants without being too blatant about it. I kind of wish the department was a tad more nuanced. Basically, I want to see them show some spine, because even corrupt officials are territorial. The show hasn't lived up to the promise of Harvey's argument that things work a certain way, because in order for the tension with Gordon to truly work, Harvey needs to occassionally seem as though he might just be right.

Ever since Alfred dispatched Selian's assassins and wooed Fish Mooney into talking, I've realized I just want to see him kicking ass with his signature charm. The show couldn't get any more ridiculous, so they need to find every excuse possible to get Alfred in action. And when I say it's ridiculous I don't mean that as a bad thing, it can be quite fun!

[AndrewCrossett]

Not that I know of. I thought her Christmas-y name could be a reference to Calendar Man or the Holiday Killer but I think they just wanted a cutesy name like Harley Quin has. In the comics Riddler has had a blonde henchwoman named Echo (Nina Damfino) along with another henchwoman named Query (Diedre Vance)

You know, with all the Bat-villains this show is introducing years before Batman, I kind of hope they start messing around with audience expectations. Nygma is basically walking around wearing a t-shirt that says "Future Riddler" on it. We all think he's going to get rejected by Miss Kringle, the bullying will finally push him over the edge, and he'll go supervillain. But what if he and the girl hit it off... and he makes some discovery or has some idea that saves the lives of several cops, so now they respect him... and he ends up having a good, happy life and never does become the Riddler? I know some people would feel cheated, but I'd be down with that kind of subversion of expectations.

Or introducing a Bat-villain and just straight-up killing him off long before he ever has a chance to meet Batman. Just to show that this show isn't going to wear comics mega-continuity like a straitjacket, and anything can happen despite what we think we know.

That was interesting knowing Fish's name now I wonder how she got the nickname.

Especially since it's not a very attractive or flattering nickname. And she uses a fish skeleton as her sign, which also seems odd. She's a dead fish?

I assume he must be under orders to bring them in. Otherwise I think Victor enjoys killing people, he shot that one lady cop when she couldn't run so it's not like he has to have a kill be thrilling.

I hope that's the case, and it's not "You killed one of my girls, so now I'm going to make you suffer like you've never... OH NO HE GOT AWAY AGAIN!"

Although, in that scene where he's standing over Butch and leering down at him, I found myself thinking, "He's going to be the Joker."

Sidebar... what's the deal with Fish and Bullock? So they're lovers or something? Don't I remember Harvey recently hanging upside down from a meathook waiting to be tortured to death at Fish's orders? Kind of a dysfunctional relationship there. And Butch seems to be in love with her too, unless there's some twist coming there.

[PretenderNX01]

You know, with all the Bat-villains this show is introducing years before Batman, I kind of hope they start messing around with audience expectations. Nygma is basically walking around wearing a t-shirt that says "Future Riddler" on it. We all think he's going to get rejected by Miss Kringle, the bullying will finally push him over the edge, and he'll go supervillain. But what if he and the girl hit it off... and he makes some discovery or has some idea that saves the lives of several cops, so now they respect him... and he ends up having a good, happy life and never does become the Riddler? I know some people would feel cheated, but I'd be down with that kind of subversion of expectations.

Or introducing a Bat-villain and just straight-up killing him off long before he ever has a chance to meet Batman. Just to show that this show isn't going to wear comics mega-continuity like a straitjacket, and anything can happen despite what we think we know.

I think Bruno Heller said it wasn't off the table but changing continuity that much would have to be carefully considered. That said, it'll be a few years before Nygma is Riddler to maybe she'll help slow that down. There was a bit where I thought if she said the guy who was reading the card was bullying her, Nygma being the coroner could probably kill him and get away with it as he'd be the one investigating it.

Sidebar... what's the deal with Fish and Bullock? So they're lovers or something? Don't I remember Harvey recently hanging upside down from a meathook waiting to be tortured to death at Fish's orders? Kind of a dysfunctional relationship there. And Butch seems to be in love with her too, unless there's some twist coming there.

It seemed like Harvey and Fish knew each other when he introduced her to Jim but yeah, Harvey has some odd taste to get with the girl after she tried to kill him not that I think Harvey knows what a functional relationship is.

Ever since Alfred dispatched Selian's assassins and wooed Fish Mooney into talking, I've realized I just want to see him kicking ass with his signature charm. The show couldn't get any more ridiculous, so they need to find every excuse possible to get Alfred in action. And when I say it's ridiculous I don't mean that as a bad thing, it can be quite fun!

I think there's supposed to be an Alfred ep coming up.

[maczero]

I think Bruno Heller said it wasn't off the table but changing continuity that much would have to be carefully considered. That said, it'll be a few years before Nygma is Riddler to maybe she'll help slow that down. There was a bit where I thought if she said the guy who was reading the card was bullying her, Nygma being the coroner could probably kill him and get away with it as he'd be the one investigating it.

Nygma's not the coroner. He's a forensic scientist. And I don't recall her saying that Flass was bullying her. I think she said he took the card off her desk and read it aloud. Although, she may have been to afraid of him to ask for it back. Speaking of Flass, was he the same guy who told Riddler to take a walk last week when he noticed that Nygma was making her uncomfortable?

You know I hate to admit it but I kinda like Nygma. I almost want things to work out between him and Ms. Kringle but she's still too creeped out by him.

I don't buy into the ridiculous idea that Falcone has a guy like Bob on his payroll. Falcone is supposed to represent the old school gangster, which means if he lets Fish live, he cuts her fingers off so when she's walking around town everyone knows he's still the king. "Bob" is more in line with the emergent Gotham freak culture and has no place in Falcone's organization. Zsasz is okay, since he's pretty much Falcone's hyper-stylized Luca Brasi--a sadistic maniac who everyone's scared of, and only the don can keep him in control. When Falcone comes apart he'll come unhinged.

I imagine Falcone is at the top because he's not that rigid in his thinking. Employing a guy who's good at extracting information may be worth overlooking his eccentricities. I'm assuming that's why he tolerates Zsasz as well.

[Kensei]

It was good seeing the Gotham PD do something right as a whole for a change, even if it was just background encouragement. But the look on Gordon's face at the very end was effective too- "Jeez, even when I win one I can't do it without holding hands with the bad side!" He's close to realizing just how total the corruption is and that he'll only ever succeed to a certain level and no further. That's where he'll be in a place to accept the presence and assistance of Batman.

Nice to have Bruce and Alfred back. Alfred's little comment about Ivy looking like she had the mange made me laugh. But for an intellectual, Bruce seems completely clueless about how Selina's mind works. He doesn't seem to even suspect that she was actually lying when she said she was lying, that she really did see the killer's face and that she was still warming up to him as a friend until the moment he made her feel like a charity case. That is her least favorite thing in the world.

And of course Fish's club is going to be the Iceberg Lounge. Penguin was one second away from saying it. I wonder if Fish will be gone now as long as Slade Wilson's been gone over on "Arrow."

[Kensei]

Found Penguins mom fairly annoying this ep.

Well, she was drunk.

[PretenderNX01]

And I don't recall her saying that Flass was bullying her.

No that was just a little "what if" that popped into my head. Coroner, forensic scientist, either way he'd be the one looking for evidence and could cover it up if he wanted to.

You know I hate to admit it but I kinda like Nygma. I almost want things to work out between him and Ms. Kringle but she's still too creeped out by him.

She's creeped out yet she smiles too. She sends mixed signals.

But for an intellectual, Bruce seems completely clueless about how Selina's mind works. He doesn't seem to even suspect that she was actually lying when she said she was lying, that she really did see the killer's face and that she was still warming up to him as a friend until the moment he made her feel like a charity case. That is her least favorite thing in the world.

Does Batman ever understand how Catwoman's mind works? He is an intellectual but she's more emotion based and so far, he's been sheltered from that kind of experience.

[AndrewCrossett]

But for an intellectual, Bruce seems completely clueless about how Selina's mind works. He doesn't seem to even suspect that she was actually lying when she said she was lying, that she really did see the killer's face and that she was still warming up to him as a friend until the moment he made her feel like a charity case. That is her least favorite thing in the world.

Yeah... Bruce's perception of others' feelings and motives will have to get a lot better before he's cowl-ready. Selina did everything but shoo him away and yell "Get out of here! I don't like you anymore!" with tears in her eyes, like a kid trying to release a pet back into the wild.

Dunno if he'll ever figure her out... which is as it should be, since they end up going in very different directions in life.

I had fully expected Fish to be a one-season wonder, destined to die at Penguin's orders in the season finale. But with this episode's events and the unexpected development of her relationship with Bullock, it looks like she's off to Recurringland.

She's creeped out yet she smiles too. She sends mixed signals.

For some reason I envision her in a themed costume as one of Riddler's right-hand henchwomen. If any of these villains are going to go full on Adam West-verse, it's him.

[HFMM]

Nygma's not the coroner. He's a forensic scientist. And I don't recall her saying that Flass was bullying her. I think she said he took the card off her desk and read it aloud. Although, she may have been to afraid of him to ask for it back. Speaking of Flass, was he the same guy who told Riddler to take a walk last week when he noticed that Nygma was making her uncomfortable?

You know I hate to admit it but I kinda like Nygma. I almost want things to work out between him and Ms. Kringle but she's still too creeped out by him.

She seem kinda attracted to Flass in a jock kinda of way. In the previous episode she did thank Flass for intervening, when Nygma was trying to talk to her. Now that Gordon took out Flass, that leaves the door open for Nygma and Ms. Kringle. Seem like they are gearing her to be the catalyst that pushes Nygma over to the dark side.

[AndrewCrossett]

Loved the grin of Nygma's face as he watched Flass being led off in handcuffs.

[Crimson Knight]

All the villains on this show really need to review the Rules for Evil Overlords list. Can't anyone just shoot somebody in the face and be done with it, instead of taking them prisoner and bringing them back to the Inner Sanctum for torture and inevitable escape? You disappoint me, Victor.

I did like Gordon's case and its resolution... even the gratuitous power shot of Future Commissioner Gordon. Very comic booky, but hey...

What gratuitous power shot of Gordon was there?

And, felt BRILLIANT, just lovely, when those cuffs were snapped around Flasss' wrists. Just be-au-ti-ful. Reminded me of Batman: Year One, the film, but not sure he got arrested there. Bit of a nastier, less Gotham-Gordon resolution, fit better this did. And glad he was finally backed up publicly by Essen, and at last, by the other GCPD.

Left feeling as if, if they didn't, it would've been a very sad day for Gordon, and possibly a worse fate for him than he ended up with, which was of course a feeling of satisfaction, victory, and curiosity, worry and regret, at the discovery at how bad things ended up for Delaware, his wife, and how much he feared for his family.

It's interesting how much one of, supposedly Cobblepotts' people, seemed to have affected him, even with his corruption, the world of violence and crime he seemed to have been involved in. Maybe he wasn't AS bad as Flass, or Cranston, or as deep in? Maybe he wasn't as cut out for it, or the personal life getting stabbed, how badly, or by people who really knew how to hurt.

I don't know.

Also, left wondering whether that was the correct response to Bruces' pain, or if it was what needed? Poor fella lost his paents, got bullied, was targeted by assassins, and briefly held imprisoned - and now, it seems it had been a fruitless search, with Selina, and an empty bond.

Might go a bit easier on him.

And, why exactly did Selina say what she said? Is she genuine, apart from the not seeing the killers' face? Does she not want to be friends with Bruce, or is it to protect him, herself, or what?

Despite how things went morally and all that, anyone else thinking the best option would've been to go to Penguin straight away? Anyone else find Miss Kapelput very odd in this, in that club? And, agree a bit with Gordon that the celebration for Cobblepot were a bit premature, seeing as Butch and Fish showed up, despite Zsaszs' timely intervention. Two weeks in a row that guy, hope he likes it on Gotham.

And, think Mooney was being kept alive to torture her, as they did, as you say, to punish her for what she'd done to Falcone, and to get an apology besides, if Bob, the 'number one guy' is to be believed.