Gotham TV Show

[Crimson Knight]

Good episode. The case Gordon & Harvey works on was interesting. I have a bit of a soft spot for Nygma so I felt pretty satisfied with what happened to Flass.

Gordon asking for Penguin's help was cool. Penguin actually looks like he just wants Jim as a friend (of course not). I actually mouthed "Iceberg Lounge" when Penguin welcomed the "people" to his club.

Selena bashing Bruce just helps him further detach from people so he'll focus on finding his parents' killer.

Fish Mooney or Maria Mercedes Moon as it were, was a total badass in this episode. Butch's loyalty really has no bounds when it comes to her.

It still annoys me that Zsasz uses a gun instead of a knife.

Well, in Penguins' Umbrella, he definitely used a knife, at least to make a new scar for the killing of that policewoman, but I get what you mean. A signature weapon of Victor, then, or just prefer it to a gun? Perhaps, more quick, slow, all that, fits him better? Like the Joker said in The Dark Knight 'Guns are too quick'.

Triple alliteration, lovely jubbly! Was that revealed when Bob was torturing her, or, scene with Bullock, Penguin, Butch?

On the gun thing again, yes, just handier, quicker and more convenient, in comparison to a knife, long range as well. Though, for the most part, knives don't run out.

And, early days for a lot of these villains. Might take Falcones' death, exile, or incarceration for Victor to ultimately switch to regularly using a blade, as a weapon. Same with Penguin and the monocle, weight, laugh.

Nygma, with the suit, the props, the use and increased regularity of his riddles.

Ivy, with the plants, costume, name and, supposedly, crime.

Long road yet to go, but perhaps less so for some. After all, we have Scarecrow Senior next two weeks, and Dollmaker coming up, so there's some established, fairly formed villains right there. Which I like.

And, people could be right about Butch loving Fish. Stuck by her about a month of time ago, when he could've easily defected to an old friend.

Stuck with her through all the Falcone stuff, better or worse, and even with her now, on the brink, and sacrificing himself, laughing in the face of danger, pain, possibly even death... Could be the greatest of loyalty, or love, or the truest of bonds, like Gordon and Bullock, Batman and Robin.

[Kensei]

What did everyone think of Butch's escape from the back of the van? He was tied up, then seconds later when the van stopped he was loose. Is he just so strong that he was able to break his bonds?

[AndrewCrossett]

What did everyone think of Butch's escape from the back of the van? He was tied up, then seconds later when the van stopped he was loose. Is he just so strong that he was able to break his bonds?

For a while I was thinking somebody must have deliberately tied him loosely so he would get away, but I can't figure out who or why. Maybe it was just a plot convenience thing, or maybe something is going on. Could Butch and Victor Zsasz be secretly working together? That would explain how Butch got tied loosely and also why Victor didn't immediately shoot him when he cornered him at the nightclub. Could the two supposedly most loyal henchmen in Gotham be secretly plotting to take over from their bosses?

[PretenderNX01]

That would be something, I've always wondered how loyal Butch was after Fish questioned him. I think the bond-breaking could have been plot convenience but there ware ways old escape artists would puff themselves up so when they got tied up they could relax and slip out more. Or he's got superpowers.

Was that revealed when Bob was torturing her, or, scene with Bullock, Penguin, Butch?

When Bob is torturing her. He wants her name for some reason so they give her full name. I'm still not sure if it's Marie or Maria as I've seen sites with both, also he may of said Moon or Mooney. He doesn't enunciate well.

I googled and DC Comics blog says it's Maria Mercedes Mooney
http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2015/01...ack-jim-gordon

[David Walton]

I think Butch is simply loyal to Fish, not in love with her.

[LanternWolf]

Well, in Penguins' Umbrella, he definitely used a knife, at least to make a new scar for the killing of that policewoman, but I get what you mean. A signature weapon of Victor, then, or just prefer it to a gun? Perhaps, more quick, slow, all that, fits him better? Like the Joker said in The Dark Knight 'Guns are too quick'.

Triple alliteration, lovely jubbly! Was that revealed when Bob was torturing her, or, scene with Bullock, Penguin, Butch?

On the gun thing again, yes, just handier, quicker and more convenient, in comparison to a knife, long range as well. Though, for the most part, knives don't run out.

And, early days for a lot of these villains. Might take Falcones' death, exile, or incarceration for Victor to ultimately switch to regularly using a blade, as a weapon. Same with Penguin and the monocle, weight, laugh.

Nygma, with the suit, the props, the use and increased regularity of his riddles.

Ivy, with the plants, costume, name and, supposedly, crime.

Long road yet to go, but perhaps less so for some. After all, we have Scarecrow Senior next two weeks, and Dollmaker coming up, so there's some established, fairly formed villains right there. Which I like.

And, people could be right about Butch loving Fish. Stuck by her about a month of time ago, when he could've easily defected to an old friend.

Stuck with her through all the Falcone stuff, better or worse, and even with her now, on the brink, and sacrificing himself, laughing in the face of danger, pain, possibly even death... Could be the greatest of loyalty, or love, or the truest of bonds, like Gordon and Bullock, Batman and Robin.

Yeah with Zsasz I just prefer him using a knife. Have his girls do the shooting and let him finish off the victim.

I'm a bit at odds with all these "legacy" villains. first we had Black Mask & now Scarecrow? It seems a tad unrealistic.

I have suspicions about Butch & Fish's relationship. I thinks the loyalty comes out of what they probably have been through & I think Butch was the Wayne's killer, somewhere down the line we'll get his real name (Joe Chill) just like we did with Fish in this episode.

[Crimson Knight]

Anyone else think Falcones' torturer was named Bob because of the Jokers' number one guy in Burtons' Batman: Bob?

I'd still prefer it be Joseph Chilton, employed by the Court of Owls to detablilize things, but had to leave Bruce Wayne alive to make people feel that bit safer. Or, so they wouldn't panic.

Maybe later, could try bring a more easily corrupted child, a Wayne of all things, into the fold, and run the city together.

I'm left wondering was any actor named for the Waynes' killer, so we know what they look, or sound like, and if, indeed, it is Butch Gilzean?

That'd be interesting, Andrew. Butch and Zsasz. But I prefer that there's an honour among thieves thing, with Butch and Fish, and we don't get another inadvisable alliance of conveniance.

Thanks, Pretender, was wondering, seemed most likely. To paraphrase Bane 'What a lovely, lovely name!'.

[maczero]

And, why exactly did Selina say what she said? Is she genuine, apart from the not seeing the killers' face? Does she not want to be friends with Bruce, or is it to protect him, herself, or what?

I believe she was lying from the beginning. If you recall the scene, the killer had his face covered and Selina was looking down from a fire escape when the Wayne's were murdered. The only way she would've seen his face was if she saw it before he put on the mask and the scene wasn't set up for her to notice anyone before the Waynes entered the alley.

As for why she's pushing him away, I'd like to think she genuinely feels bad about lying and felt guilty that he was willing to open his home to her. A less satisfying reason is that she was offended that he offered to let her live with him as if he saw her as a charity case.

For a while I was thinking somebody must have deliberately tied him loosely so he would get away, but I can't figure out who or why. Maybe it was just a plot convenience thing, or maybe something is going on. Could Butch and Victor Zsasz be secretly working together? That would explain how Butch got tied loosely and also why Victor didn't immediately shoot him when he cornered him at the nightclub. Could the two supposedly most loyal henchmen in Gotham be secretly plotting to take over from their bosses?

I don't see Victor as a boss or even a schemer. He's a weapon. He's happy being told what to do as long as it involves killing.

[LanternWolf]

Robin Lord Taylor teases first meeting between The Penguin & Edward Nygma:

[90'sCartoonMan]

I don't buy into the ridiculous idea that Falcone has a guy like Bob on his payroll. Falcone is supposed to represent the old school gangster, which means if he lets Fish live, he cuts her fingers off so when she's walking around town everyone knows he's still the king. "Bob" is more in line with the emergent Gotham freak culture and has no place in Falcone's organization.

I was kind of hoping Bob would end up being the Crime Doctor.

Sidebar... what's the deal with Fish and Bullock? So they're lovers or something? Don't I remember Harvey recently hanging upside down from a meathook waiting to be tortured to death at Fish's orders? Kind of a dysfunctional relationship there. And Butch seems to be in love with her too, unless there's some twist coming there.

I liked the Bullock/Fish twist in the end. Makes you see previous interactions in a new light. I'm just hoping we'll get flashbacks to see where this all came from.

You know I hate to admit it but I kinda like Nygma. I almost want things to work out between him and Ms. Kringle but she's still too creeped out by him.

I like Nygma too. He's so nice and well meaning, but he's socially awkward. Maybe he just needs a friend who understands him. I'd really get a kick out of it if Nygma meets Bruce and Bruce actually plays along with his riddles.

Alfred's little comment about Ivy looking like she had the mange made me laugh.

That was funny, but there could be more to it than that. Maybe she gets some nasty disease at some point and needs some sort of weird, experimental plant-based medicine.

Could Butch and Victor Zsasz be secretly working together? That would explain how Butch got tied loosely and also why Victor didn't immediately shoot him when he cornered him at the nightclub. Could the two supposedly most loyal henchmen in Gotham be secretly plotting to take over from their bosses?

Butch is so loyal to Fish he'd shoot his own brother. I don't think he's playing anyone.

[Kensei]

I like Nygma too. He's so nice and well meaning, but he's socially awkward. Maybe he just needs a friend who understands him. I'd really get a kick out of it if Nygma meets Bruce and Bruce actually plays along with his riddles.

That would be great! Maybe Bruce visits Gordon at police h.q. for an update on his parents' case, and while there he is shocked and appalled at the hints of corruption he picks up on all over the place, but then apart from Gordon the only meaningful interaction he has is with Nygma. Bruce wouldn't rebuff him like everyone else does but would more likely go, "Hello, what's this?" and then play along. For that to be Batman and Riddler's first meeting I would find very satisfying.

[Abishai100]

The introduction of Dr. Jonathan Crane (the future Scarecrow) is coming up soon on "Gotham" (Fox TV).

Scarecrow is arguably Gotham City's most malicious villain, perhaps even more malicious than the Joker or the Penguin.

We'll see if Jim Gordon has to deal with Dr. Crane working on some kind of strange new experimental mind improvement drug (a loose premonition of Scarecrow's signature fear-enhancement toxin).

[AndrewCrossett]

Butch is so loyal to Fish he'd shoot his own brother. I don't think he's playing anyone.

Or... or... he's so loyal to himself that he'd shoot anyone, including his own blood brother, and including Fish.

That would mean he's an incredibly good actor and liar... but successful sociopaths often are.

I would say it's probably most likely he's just freakishly loyal to Fish. But I hope we get to see why.

[Crimson Knight]

The introduction of Dr. Jonathan Crane (the future Scarecrow) is coming up soon on "Gotham" (Fox TV).

Scarecrow is arguably Gotham City's most malicious villain, perhaps even more malicious than the Joker or the Penguin.

We'll see if Jim Gordon has to deal with Dr. Crane working on some kind of strange new experimental mind improvement drug (a loose premonition of Scarecrow's signature fear-enhancement toxin).

At the same time, keep in mind, this is, IIRC, Gerald Crane, father of Jonathan, so might be different to what we usually would expect.

Here're some clips from The Fearsome Dr. Crane:

http://comicbook.com/2015/01/31/4-go...some-dr-crane/

[Crimson Knight]

New Gotham featurrette, on relationship between Harvey and Fish:

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansit...news/?a=114657