Gotham TV Show

[maczero]

what makes you think that they're not?

No seriously, why would you ask if the captain is Montoya's mother? Did I miss something implying that they're related?

[Zorkel567]

I hope we don't see Fish after this. She didn't do much for me.

She's a series regular...

[saul_on_the_road_to_damascus]

Or, give the show another bit of a go, a certain amount of episodes, or uncertain amount, then stop if you decide 'No, this isn't for me'.

I mean, saul, if you only give a show a go and aren't sure about it, and someone says to you not to watch, then they don't...that might not be a good thing.

If someone had said that to me after Sleepy Hollow, or Community, series premieres, I would've been out of one of my favourite shows, comedy, or otherwise, and a good drama that I enjoy to this day.

That wouldn't have been that good, really, I think.

I just hate listening to people bitch and run down shows and things I like. And sleepy hollow was the bees knees from episode one.

[Crimson Knight]

I just hate listening to people bitch and run down shows and things I like. And sleepy hollow was the bees knees from episode one.

Ah, whatever you say, sure, but I felt it rushed through things far too quickly, not taking its' time enough for my liking.

Preferred following episodes of SH, really, whatever about the Season 2 premiere, to some degree.

I apologize if I was being overly aggressive with you, or needlessly confrontational, but I felt I needed to defend Alfred, and give the person you replied to about not watching some leeway, as don't like that it felt dismissive, what you said.

And, people aren't necessarily just giving out, but doing so, criticising, complimenting, giving observations and all that.

And if they are, as you say, running them down, then they have every right to do so, and here, and on places like this.

Doesn't mean that's bad, or they're being cruel, or anything like that.

Sure, I like a lot of things other people might criticize, heavily or otherwise, and might feel the need to defend it, lightly or otherwise. But, sometimes, I feel, you need to leave it alone, but it's up to you.

[Kensei]

Chiming in here as I just watched the premiere (I work nights so I'm always catching shows the next day). I wasn't sure what to expect but I have to say I really liked it. I'm sure a lot of people spent a lot of time discussing what the very first image in the very first episode should be- and it was Selina. I loved that. She's always been one of my favorite characters.

I've posted threads before about which live action version of the Waynes' murder people prefer, the Burton version or the Nolan one. Both had young Bruce in stunned silence in the aftermath. Now we have the "Gotham" version to compare. It was brutal, with Thomas making no move to stop the man from taking the necklace but he shot them both anyway for no apparent reason. Neither of the previous versions showed the blood either. But what really set this one apart was Bruce's anguished scream. It gave me chills. (I wonder if the killer will turn out to be Joe Chill.)

Surprised to see the Riddler as a forensics tech. I wonder what makes him go bad. Interesting to see the comedian who may or may not be the Joker cringe at seeing Oswald being beaten. If he does become the Joker, boy will that change. No such queasiness from Oswald himself who finished the episode by killing a man for a sandwich. No doubt there will be more such moments from him.

The city looked great (especially in the cemetery scene) and I could just see Batman operating in it. Can't wait for more!

[Kensei]

A few more thoughts- I guess I wasn't thrilled about this version of Alfred but I didn't hate it either. I'm sure he'll develop much more as a character over time. What I'd really like to see in a live action Alfred though (and what I hope we get in Batman v Superman) is his distinctive look from the comics, as none of the now five actors who've played him have looked a thing like him.

And one curious thing- We got Selina with a cat and in catlike poses, Nygma telling riddles, Ivy with plants and Oswald being called Penguin, but not one mention or image of bats whatsoever. Maybe in time.

[Carmen_Rider]

Oh, Gotham is on. It's been leading lists of anticipated TV shows.

[The New Black]

Didn't hate it but there were a couple things that kept it from being good in my opinion.

1. The Dialogue - A lot of it didn't sound realistic to me. At some points, it was downright corny.
2. Young Bruce - I just wasn't impressed by the actor's performance.

Also, I felt the tone of the show was a little more "comic booky" than I expected. I was expecting something grittier and a little more down to earth. However, I'm going to look at this as a positive. If they went full on with the gritty & realistic tone then I'd just be watching the Wire or Law & Order in Gotham. So maybe the cheesy dialogue and over the top performances aren't a bad thing.

Anymore I cringe at the idea of ANOTHER origin story, but I was pleasantly surprised by Gotham. Not sure what I was expecting from the show, but it was entertaining enough in a The Wire in Gotham City sort of way. And yeah, I thought some of the dialogue was odd or just delivered oddly, but I chalked that up to the Sin City effect. Some comic book-style dialogue, internal monologue-ing and whatnot works fine in print, but it just doesn't sound right when spoken aloud. I don't know if they were doing this intentionally on the show, but it was the impression I got.

[Jim Kelly]

I've posted threads before about which live action version of the Waynes' murder people prefer, the Burton version or the Nolan one. Both had young Bruce in stunned silence in the aftermath. Now we have the "Gotham" version to compare. It was brutal, with Thomas making no move to stop the man from taking the necklace but he shot them both anyway for no apparent reason. Neither of the previous versions showed the blood either. But what really set this one apart was Bruce's anguished scream. It gave me chills. (I wonder if the killer will turn out to be Joe Chill.)

I'm not ashamed to confess that scene jerked more than a few tears out of me. The Burton and the Nolan versions are so stylized that I think they distance a person from the emotion of the scene. This one felt more real to me. I knew what was going to happen and yet I was still profoundly sad when it happened.

I still prefer Gordon being the beat cop who responds to the scene, as in BATMAN BEGINS--but I understand why it had to be this way for the TV series. On the whole this origin feels like old school Batman.

[macicenuke]

Loved the pilot. Although, Barbara was WAY off. And I might have missed it, but how does she own/live in a Penthouse? Where's the supportive humble-looking housewife who is forced to deal with Gordon's affair with Essen?

[Vidocq]

Loved the pilot. Although, Barbara was WAY off. And I might have missed it, but how does she own/live in a Penthouse? Where's the supportive humble-looking housewife who is forced to deal with Gordon's affair with Essen?

She's still a supportive Fiance who hasn't had to deal with an affair or mobsters kidnapping her son. And the Penthhouse, she is rich, or has rich parents.

[AngelsXDemons]

Oh my gosh! A entire other Gotham discussion thread? Well I posted the following thoughts in the other Gotham thread but I guess it won't hurt to post em here as well. So here goes.

After having seen both of the pilot episodes for 'Constantine' and 'Gotham' I believe that both shows are strong and worthy enough to go for at least 3 to 5 seasons before either concluding, getting spin-offs or cancellation. I can see 'Constantine' spawning a 'Justice League Dark' or even a 'Raven' centric show and I'm hopeful that Harley Quinn, Raven, Klarion The Witch Boy, Katana, Pandora, Bunker, Amethyst Gemworld Princess, Phantom Stranger and Night Nurse will all make appearances as guest characters in both 'Gotham' and 'Constantine' and perhaps even in 'The Flash' despite the fact that all three DC Comics shows are airing on different networks with 'Supergirl' set to debut on CBS next year. We all know that Kid Flash, Aquaman, Green Arrow and Supergirl were prominent guest in episodes of Smallville to great success.

I'm sure all of us here who have already watched and enjoyed the pilot episode of Constantine have noticed the helm of Doctor Fate, which was, in my opinion, the biggest Easter egg in the whole episode signaling that he'll show up soon in future episodes and that certainly hints that Zatana can't be far behind either. On a side note, with so many mothers and daughters getting into comic books now that the "boys club" wall of partition has been broken down, I think it important that the people behind DC Comics television shows such as The Flash, and Gotham need to shine a big spot light on the female characters like Amethyst, Starfire, Raven, Terra and Donna Troy. I think that Arrow and Marvel's solid Agents of Shield are already doing fairly good jobs of giving female characters a front seat role thus filling the need for solid good relateable onscreen females for young women and girls who are watching the shows and have been voicing such opinions on sites like themarysue.com.

[macicenuke]

Yeah, still... not down to earth enough. Seemed more like a floozie Gordon would be banging on the side. Did like the tie-in with Montoya, tho.

[Jim Kelly]

Why would the TV producers want to copy Gordon's wife in Year One? There's hardly a character there and the action takes place years after young Bruce saw his parents killed. Why should fidelity to the Year One story (which likely will never be in this series) trump any character development for Jim and Barbara in the GOTHAM story?

It seems to me that Barbara will prove useful to the series, because she occupies a kind of in-between world. I think that's the symbolism of her apartment. And her ambiguous orientation also represents how Barbara can go from one world to another. Barbara lends herself to this kind reinterpretation because she's never been a strongly drawn character before. She's mainly existed to have babies and leave Jim and get out of the way.

The pilot concerned itself mostly with the underworld and the policeworld. But I expect future episodes will have more action in the high society world that the Waynes travelled in. Then we'll get to see more of Alfred (hopefully). And I'm sure Barbara fits into that world very nicely, too.

[Gary Alexander Stott]

I don't like that. I think the Joker's lack of identity is sort of character-defining. Batman is Order and Joker is Chaos. While Batman/Order has a clear and logical backstory, Joker/Chaos comes from mystery and the inexplicable. This modern idea of him not remembering who he is, or being in denial about who he is, or remembering it different at different times, that works really well with the chaotic interpretation of the character. Death of the Family played on this really well too with that issue that opened with a shot of Joker staring at the reader, and dialogue boxes daring you to look into his eyes and tell yourself he's just a man, and nothing more. I just think giving him a concrete identity sort of makes him less interesting.

I think if Gotham are going with the pseudo-backstory Moore came up with for him, they shouldn't reference it directly. Have the random stand-up comedian in the first episode, introduce the Joker later, and just never connect the two. Leave that to be a theory discussed for years to come on message boards. Enigma is one of the Joker's greatest elements.

EDIT: This is in response to the guy proposing an idea for a Joker backstory involving MK Ultra. Forgot to include the quote! >.<