Gotham TV Show

[kalorama]

Except is does work for most people and is coming back for a season 2 since it's worst ratings are on par with Agents of SHIELD and yet it's on FOX which nobody watches.

Except I wasn't talking about the ratings (which I know nor care anything about) or the quality of the show (which I think is just fine). I was talking specifically (and only) about making Bruce a little kid as a way of providing a reason for Batman not being on the show that would head off people complaining about his absence.

That hasn't worked at all.

[kalorama]

Gotham is not at all like the X-Files. Ghosts? Zombies? Monsters? Aliens? Demonic possessions? Do you even remember the X-Files?

Oh come on. Really?

You didn't say anything about "Ghosts? Zombies? Monsters? Aliens? Demonic possessions?" The only specific comparison/reference you made to the X-Files was "how Scully and Fox solved cases while being **** upon by the system and also making it creepy." Well, that's exactly what happens in Gotham. Gordan and Bullock are constantly being "**** upon by the system" (in the last episode the friggin' Police Commissioner set them up to have Jim's girlfriend murdered) and the show is, undeniably, quite creepy. So yes, Gotham is very much like the two, very narrowly defined characteristics of the X-Files you specifically referenced in your original response.

[AndrewCrossett]

Finally got to see this episode.

I'm pretty happy with how it's going so far. We've had like a thousand movies, TV shows and cartoons of Batman in action... I don't mind an extended origin story. They may lose the mission at some point, but I kind of like seeing the little bits and pieces gradually fall into place that will eventually lead to the Bat. I do worry a bit about all these iconic Bat-villains who are going to be basically un-killable for the next 10 years or so, but as long as they find some way to keep up the dramatic tension I will keep watching.

I actually liked the (deliberate) contrast of Peguin and Riddler in this ep. Penguin brutally kills an innocent guy and feels no remorse. Riddler brutally kills a non-innocent guy and is horrified, possibly broken psychologically. Two people, two different brands of crazy.

You know when Oswald will truly become The Penguin? In the season finale when he somehow has to sacrifice his mother in order to kill Maroni. She's the only person in the world he feels love for. With her gone he will be free to become a true supervillain.

It looks like Barbara may be going in that direction too. The Ogre's Murder Room wasn't just a kinky Shades of Grey set-up. Those walls were lined with serious murder weapons.

Her attitude in this ep... her weird friendship with Selina and Ivy... what if Ogre and Barbara are slated to become Joker and Harley? (Yeah, I know, stupid idea.)

If they're gonna keep Barbara around, I hope they let her wear that micro-minidress a lot. Damn.

[PretenderNX01]

Her attitude in this ep... her weird friendship with Selina and Ivy... what if Ogre and Barbara are slated to become Joker and Harley? (Yeah, I know, stupid idea.)

I don't think they'll literally be Joker and Harley but I can see the influence on their relationship now that you mention it. She's needy and he needs someone to need him. They could kind of be a proto-Joker/Harley for Gotham (without the makeup) for as long as he's there.

[AndrewCrossett]

I don't think they'll literally be Joker and Harley but I can see the influence on their relationship now that you mention it. She's needy and he needs someone to need him. They could kind of be a proto-Joker/Harley for Gotham (without the makeup) for as long as he's there.

Harley as she appears in the comics is too over-the-top for this show, unfortunately, so if they do reference her it will be something more subtle, like this.

[John Aston]

I'm not into Gotham. I tried. It's not bad. It's not for me and I don't have patience with prequels anymore.

So what could possibly be the payoff on this show?

And, does Bruce Wayne being in the show or cast so young ultimately stunt the momentum of the villain origins?

[Mgoldman14]

Am I the only one who thinks this show is starting to tank? I really find it to become really boring. The last entertaining episode was with the graysons. Even though it's the first season, I feel bruce is too much of a kid and they don't focus on him enough. They should call the show Fish vs. Penguin.

[marvelguy25]

I'm not a hater oh this show. I fact I enjoy it and liked it as you've seen my comments but seeing how this show is going do you think it'll get worse as episodes go by in terms of performances, caricatures, changes in characters, lack of subtlety, romance on Barbara, etc.?

[Mgoldman14]

Does anyone else agree that the show is getting boring?

[Kensei]

Multiple mobsters who all hate each other and live a knife's edge away from war, corrupt cops, serial killers, a Dr. Frankenstein on a mysterious island, the origins of supervillains- "Boring?" I hardly think that's the word for it. Bruce doing as much as he's doing at such a young age might seem far fetched, but the show is asking the question "What if he did?" And I think there's just a little too much focus on how much people dislike Barbara. Maybe we're supposed to dislike her which would mean her character is working perfectly.

[Powerboy]

I like the show but I admit that, of all the new shows I am currently watching, it is the least favorite of them.

I started laughing at that scene where the Penguin stabs the guy right outside his apartment and leaves a trail of blood. I mean, gosh, it's not like the guy was a delivery guy who had a specific delivery to make to s specific address. It's not like his company would know where they sent him. It's not like the police have any forensics guys and could find traces of blood no matter how much he scrubbed.

It's up there with Fish "I blithely gouge my own eye out in one second flat like it's no big deal and easy" Mooney but it's up there. Then, of course, there's Edward "I stab a guy multiple times and don't have a drop of blood on me" Nygma.

In many respects, it's on a 1960's Batman level of absurdity to the point it feels downright campy, the big difference being Batman '66 knew it was campy and absurdly unrealistic while this tries to project a feeling of being believable and serious and occasionally grotesque.

In spite of all that, I still enjoy it. I enjoy some of the characterization, especially Gordon, Harvey Dent, Bruce Wayne, Selina Kyle and Alfred. The Penguin, in spite of the disguised campiness, is a fun character, sort of if Burgess Meredith was a psychopath.

I thought it was funny when the actor who plays the Riddler to be tried to do the Riddler laugh and managed a weak imitation. I'm not sure if I care for where he's going. I would have preferred that at least some of Batman's villains to be not be killers although I don't think the Riddler is embracing this killing stuff as he's not inherently a psychopath. At least I don't think so.

[Powerboy]

Does anyone else agree that the show is getting boring?

I'd say predictable in certain ways as I mentioned above.

[PretenderNX01]

Harley as she appears in the comics is too over-the-top for this show, unfortunately, so if they do reference her it will be something more subtle, like this.

I don't think anything's too over the top for Gotham In fact crazy Arkham employ was touched on with the nurse. I just think they actually can't do Harley as she'd have to be young if Jerome is going to be Joker. In the theoretical future though, Harley would fit right in.

In many respects, it's on a 1960's Batman level of absurdity to the point it feels downright campy, the big difference being Batman '66 knew it was campy and absurdly unrealistic while this tries to project a feeling of being believable and serious and occasionally grotesque.

I usually refer to it as being more Burton-esque. It's stylized, its got a dark-camp or gothic quality and like Burton there is that grotesque streak.

[Powerboy]

I usually refer to it as being more Burton-esque. It's stylized, its got a dark-camp or gothic quality and like Burton there is that grotesque streak.

That sounds about right.

It's also amazing how "time sensitive" these things are. In 1989, Burton's Batman, despite having some dark humor, seemed quite serious and certainly not campy. When I watched it again a few months ago, I was amazed at how campy and unrealistic it felt to me.

Likewise, had "Gotham" been on the air in 1989, well, it would not have been able to get on the air. If it did, it would be considered dark, gritty and utterly sick beyond belief. But, in 2015, it's considered borderline campy or "Burton-esque".

[AndrewCrossett]

So why the hell did Gordon and Bullock drive all the way upstate instead of calling the cops in the town where Barbara's parents live?

Looks like we have Batcave next week.