Gotham TV Show

[AngelsXDemons]

I don't like that. I think the Joker's lack of identity is sort of character-defining. Batman is Order and Joker is Chaos. While Batman/Order has a clear and logical backstory, Joker/Chaos comes from mystery and the inexplicable. This modern idea of him not remembering who he is, or being in denial about who he is, or remembering it different at different times, that works really well with the chaotic interpretation of the character. Death of the Family played on this really well too with that issue that opened with a shot of Joker staring at the reader, and dialogue boxes daring you to look into his eyes and tell yourself he's just a man, and nothing more. I just think giving him a concrete identity sort of makes him less interesting.

...

Ditto! I agree with everything you said. The Joker really is chaos and Batman is Law and Order. A definitive back story for The Joker would really shatter everything that makes him what he is.

[PretenderNX01]

From what I understand, Joker isn't getting a backstory. We the fans will see someone once in a while (like that comedian) and be like "wait, is that...?" but they won't commit to one as being the Joker as he doesn't come about until after Batman.

Loved the pilot. Although, Barbara was WAY off. And I might have missed it, but how does she own/live in a Penthouse? Where's the supportive humble-looking housewife who is forced to deal with Gordon's affair with Essen?

I don't think Barbara is a known enough character to be "off" or "on". I mean, usually she's dead. Frank Miller gave us one, some other guy gave us another in a mini or something (I can't remember but he's claiming he invented Barbara Keane and deserves money Edit: it's Alan Brennert and his Barbara Keane was on an alternate Earth and he said he named her after Gordon's daughter Barbara so it's pretty derivative of a pre-existing character. Sorry dude.)

This Barbara comes from money and is apparently what Ben's other show, Southland, calls a "badge bunny"

[lancerman]

Just got around to seeing it. Okay mixed bag. Let's start with the bad. They are falling into the trap of throwing too many references and winks in early. Save it. Ivy didn't need to be in this, and because she was unnecessary and they probably limited what they can do with character in a creative fashion going forward. Penguin didn't need to be there, though from the preview he looks to be getting some good character development. Same with Catwoman. Also some camera shots were kind of stupid, especially during Gordon's chase scene with Peppers, there was a close up shot of Gordon that they cut to twice and it really disrupted the scene and made the actor look ridiculous. The big critique is it seems to be having trouble finding it's identity. It's hard to play serious when you delve to far into cartoony and cliches. And I found the show to be much better when it took itself seriously, one of the best scenes was the Carmine and Gordon seen. It needs more of that.

Okay for the good. Both leads are fantastic. The chemistry between Gordon and Bullock is already very good and I anticipate they will chew scenery. The plot was fast paced and didn't linger. The last thing "the Gotham show without Batman" needs is the boring label. It wasn't perfect but I never felt like I was wasting my time. The plotting was good. The production of the whole episode was great.

There is a worthwhile show here. That's the promising thing. It needs tightening up.

[nightrider]

The reviews are in and wow.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/gotham/

[Greg]

I just hope people give it a chance to be itself instead of constantly thinking Batman will somehow show up and trying to concoct some way for it to happen.

Yeah, seriously. Wish people would just let them tell their story and see where it goes. We have the Batman stories already, all 70 or so years of it and different adaptions. Let's see how they do with this one.

[Jack Flag]

Drunk driver killed his dad, he became a cop for vengeance. Not that hard to see they're mirroring Batman with the guy who ends up being Batman's confidant.


Ok, so you're just here to prove your loyalty to Arrow by bashing Gotham. Never mind.

So you can't become a force of vengeance by becoming a DA? Listen, being a cop is grunt work - it's like being a construction worker with a badge. People who are DA's are upper middle class at least. In the real world a son of a DA goes to law school. And if you want to use the argument that Gordon's family could not afford law school since the dad died - Gordon is a vet and war hero - so he has the GI Bill and the ability to go to top law schools probably for free on scholarship since he is a war hero. It just seems they made Gordon rich (or with a rich wife) as some sort of Bruce Wayne stand in where he lives the high life and then goes into the gritty Gotham streets? It was a wrong note for his character.

To me Gordon is like the Sean Connery character in the Untouchables movie. He is honest, everyone hates him while respecting him and he lives on a cops salary. Were the producers trying to mash the upper class Ivy League Eliot Ness persona with the blue collar Irish chop Sean Connery persona? If so they made the wrong choices.

And I mention Arrow because it is apt comparison of something done well and something done clunkily like Gotham's first episode was.

[lancerman]

The reviews are in and wow.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/gotham/

This illustrates the flaw with rotten tomatoes. You either get a fresh or rotten score. So if 95% of the reviews said you were a B- and the other 5% called you an F. You get a 95% and everyone reads that site and thinks your the greatest thing of all time.

[PretenderNX01]

In the real world a son of a DA goes to law school.

You have a very specific opinion about what happens in the real world and I just don't think it's true.



Seriously, people are getting hung up on the weirdest things. I'm on a gay forum where a guy just can not believe rich people walk through an ally. He "lives in NY and no one like that would ever" and I'm just like seriously? A guy grows up to dress like a bat but this isn't realistic?

Yes the son of a DA decided to be a police officer and be more hands on. They may have more reasons for him not following his father directly, or not. We'll see. Bruce Wayne could also go to law school and be a DA but he dresses like a bat instead.

[DurararaFTW]

Seriously, people are getting hung up on the weirdest things. I'm on a gay forum where a guy just can not believe rich people walk through an ally. He "lives in NY and no one like that would ever" and I'm just like seriously? A guy grows up to dress like a bat but this isn't realistic?

Yes the son of a DA decided to be a police officer and be more hands on. They may have more reasons for him not following his father directly, or not. We'll see. Bruce Wayne could also go to law school and be a DA but he dresses like a bat instead.

I don't think Gordon being rich, having a dead father whose great work for the city is referenced a lot and is now on a path of vengeance is a weird thing to get hung up on. they couldn't do a Gordon show without making him as a exactly like Batman as they can possibly get away with?

[PretenderNX01]

I don't think Gordon being rich, having a dead father whose great work for the city is referenced a lot and is now on a path of vengeance is a weird thing to get hung up on. they couldn't do a Gordon show without making him as a exactly like Batman as they can possibly get away with?

That's not what I said. He has repeatedly posted the son of a DA would go to law school. That's all he is hung up on, that's what I am responding to.

Hell, I pointed out Gordon was Bat-like.

And why didn't Gordon go to law school? That would have been the more real life reality of the son of a DA.

In the real world a son of a DA goes to law school. And if you want to use the argument that Gordon's family could not afford law school since the dad died - Gordon is a vet and war hero - so he has the GI Bill and the ability to go to top law schools probably for free on scholarship since he is a war hero.

I wasn't making it up.

[Vic Vega]

We don't know what this version Gordon's career ambitions are.

We do get the impression that he made Dectective really quickly.

An idealistic reformer Gordon might very well have the desire to "come up thru the ranks" so nobody could say he got his by riding on his daddy's coattails.

Honestly if this version of Gordon has political ambitions, he's is going about everything the right way (including the rich girlfriend).

[Paul W.]

We don't know what this version Gordon's career ambitions are.

It's almost like the character has his own career ambitions outside the "real world" expectations! Inconceivable!

[nightrider]

This illustrates the flaw with rotten tomatoes. You either get a fresh or rotten score. So if 95% of the reviews said you were a B- and the other 5% called you an F. You get a 95% and everyone reads that site and thinks your the greatest thing of all time.

You mean like the avengers?

[Crimson Knight]

Gotham was absolutely lethal. If anyone popping in here hasn't watched it yet, you are absolutely going to love it.

A unique visual aesthetic. Lots of blues, greys and stuff like that.

Characters well dressed too, like they were always at business, or a funeral, or both.

By poor Gordons' face, being asked how he liked Gotham so far, it didn't look far from that.

And, dialogue was corny as all hell, and yeah, I agree with the poster who said it sounded like a comic book. I loved it though. Doesn't match with a live action setting, or serious thing like this, but it really did work for me.

Out of his depth, little danger in his eye, lots of stuff like that.

And the faking of the death - lethally awesome twist, which enables Gordon and Bullock to continue, Jim to look into who actually killed the Waynes - any why?.

Plus, setting up Cobblepot on his own uniquely gripping, yet disturbing, melee of murders, rise to power. Make the Penguin a name to be feared, respected and be wary of. Not on used simply to mock, belittle, or laugh at.

To corn the joint up a bit more - if Oswald's a Penguin, then he's gonna swallow all these fish whole.

[Crimson Knight]

Also, only one scene, but the way he said the stuff, and how much he HAD to ask these questions, or riddles, found Edward Nygma fairly annoying.

Like the guy who, at a party, you'd humour, would anger you, but you'd try to keep it under. Someone you'd wish would just leave you alone, as soon as possible.

Though, as I said to my Dad, though one of the worst to have at a part, not as bad as Oswald, for sure.