Post Crisis Wonder Woman vs Android 18

[abmccray]

Doesn't he have the Infinite Mass Punch?



Pretty damn sure that would ruin Frieza+ characters as the IMP is supposed to hit with the force of "a white dwarf star,". Though considering I don't see it brought up much on here I am guessing it isn't something he has done consistently enough to give him that ability?

He wouldn't be able to hit them with it anyway, since that would require travel speed and they could see him coming and move out the way. The Flash reacts as fast as his travel speed; Superman doesn't and basically aims himself like a jet and fires at large celestial bodies, and distance + time wouldn't allow him to do that to someone smaller that is a large fraction of light in a Rumbles setting.

[abmccray]

I'll just say that im not on board with using the bardock movie as canon at all. It only makes sense to use Manga and the new movies and special since they were all directly made and written by Toriyama himself. Inderect stuff should all be ignored imo.

I'm fine with that either way at this point (now that Toriyama is playing around with that), and both make sense. I think this is just a matter of preference.

It's silly not to include BoG/etc. though. "Everyone" knows Toriyama is continuing the story in an animated fashion now because he doesn't feel like doing a monthly manga anymore and would rather work on a whim, and other people have drawn those movies as manga in Shounen Jump (where it was originally published) FOR Toriyama since he doesn't feel like doing it himself. So it's pretty much a moot point anyway.

[buutenks]

He wouldn't be able to hit them with it anyway, since that would require travel speed and they could see him coming and move out the way. The Flash reacts as fast as his travel speed; Superman doesn't and basically aims himself like a jet and fires at large celestial bodies, and distance + time wouldn't allow him to do that to someone smaller that is a large fraction of light in a Rumbles setting.

OK so people keep saying WW is LS,but has she actually fought at that speed or just flew and punched and kick while going in a straight line?Has she ever done move from one spot to another and then characters commenting or author she moved at X speed,or characters who are known to be that fast go wow shes faster or as fast as me.

[Hazard]

Okay, so I figure this needs to be explained at this point since there seems to be confusion between posters who are familiar with the material and those who are new to it.

For the longest time Dragon Ball canon was the manga. With some debate as where the two TV Specials fitted into this since Toriyama had made references to both in the manga.

Then Akira Toriyama went and wrote Yo, Son Goku and Friends Return many years later. Which is an animated special.

Later still, Toriyama became heavily involved in Battle of Gods. He wrote this as a continuation of the manga and acknowledged the existence of Tarble, a character introduced in the previous Special in it.

Then he released Galactic Patrolman Jaco, a one volume manga that acted as prequel to Dragon Ball while making references to some stuff touched on Battle of Gods but also retconned the Bardok Special.

The anime isn't canon.

The movies Toriyama is involved in and wrote as a continuation to the manga, however, are.

Dragon Ball Canon is Manga. Galactic Patrollman Jaco, Yo Son Goku and Friends Return, Battle of Gods, and the upcoming Revival of F.


Kai does not really fit into this. Toriyama has said, and I quote, he is writing the movie "as though it were a continuation of the manga when it was in serialization". No mention of the anime there.

Kai may be a more streamlined adaptation of the manga, but in case of discrepancy the manga is still takes precedence.

[Cody]

This is blatantly untrue.

Robert Kirkman has a hand in both the comic version of The Walking Dead and the TV version.

If both were canon, that would mean some characters are simultaneously dead and not dead.

Edit: Actually, in The Walking Dead, that's kind of ironic.

There is a difference between Dragonball and "Walking Dead". To compare the two is absurd.

I'll just say that im not on board with using the bardock movie as canon at all. It only makes sense to use Manga and the new movies and special since they were all directly made and written by Toriyama himself. Inderect stuff should all be ignored imo.

Most of the special was retconed. So if you want to ignore it that is fine; however that doesn't change the fact that him challenging Frieza is still canon. It was in the manga and in Kai. And Akira had a hand in choosing what was added to Kai.

[Cody]

Kai does not really fit into this. Toriyama has said, and I quote, he is writing the movie "as though it were a continuation of the manga when it was in serialization". No mention of the anime there.

Kai may be a more streamlined adaptation of the manga, but in case of discrepancy the manga is still takes precedence.

He still had a hand at picking what scenes were added to Kai. Does anything in Kai contradict the manga? No. Did he pick those scenes? Yes. Were many of those scenes also referenced in the manga(Bardock for example)? Yes. Gregory or Bubbles(forget which) were added in the anime but were not in the manga, yet he created both of them but did not have time to add both. So instead Toei added both in the anime. Which carried over to Kai.

[Hazard]

He still had a hand at picking what scenes were added to Kai. Does anything in Kai contradict the manga? No. Did he pick those scenes? Yes. Were many of those scenes also referenced in the manga(Bardock for example)? Yes. Gregory or Bubbles(forget which) were added in the anime but were not in the manga, yet he created both of them but did not have time to add both. So instead Toei added both in the anime. Which carried over to Kai.

He got to pick. That doesn't really mean he canonized. He just supervised. I get where you are coming from but the manga still takes priority over the animated adaptation.

[Cody]

He got to pick. That doesn't really mean he canonized. He just supervised. I get where you are coming from but the manga still takes priority over the animated adaptation.

As long as it doesn't contradict anything in the manga I don't see a problem in taking in Kai as canon for the series on here.

[Pendaran]

OK so people keep saying WW is LS,but has she actually fought at that speed or just flew and punched and kick while going in a straight line?Has she ever done move from one spot to another and then characters commenting or author she moved at X speed,or characters who are known to be that fast go wow shes faster or as fast as me.

She's near light, to be accurate. So, while a lot of those feats mentioned for her were.. used/described/held as valid in unfortunate ways, one of the ones from that Wonder Woman pile was her, Superman and the Walter West Flash superspeed monitoring a whole pile White Martians who thought they were human across the globe within a relatively short time span, such that they were basically invisible presences monitoring them, moving back and forth between them, dividing doing so up between them. Which is to say, the feat is not "she did something Walter was also doing", the feat was what they did (as frankly that's otherwise something of a low performance for Walter).

This is good, but only so good, as for instance, they knew where all of them were in the first place to watch them (the JLA had been existingly keeping track of these goobers). It's still nice enough for "Wonder Woman is certainly near light in superspeed reaction time". She has other junk like that.

[Pendaran]

Also, this sure comes off like there are clear and obvious agreements on what's canon and not guys.

[Cody]

Also, this sure comes off like there are clear and obvious agreements on what's canon and not guys.

Oh I agree with Hazard on everything he said. Just not with Kai. That is basically where we are at atm. Way I see it; if AT had a hand in picking what should be in the show, and if nothing about it contradicts the manga in anyway, then it shouldn't be a problem to include it on here when talking canon.

[Beadle]

There is a difference between Dragonball and "Walking Dead". To compare the two is absurd.

I wasn't really comparing the two.

My point was that you can't just make sweeping statements about "he had a hand in it so it's canon" and that we "just know" that to be true.

If something is in different media, and the writer hasn't said it's canon (as he has with the stuff Hazard listed) then we don't know anything of the sort. In fact, if he's actually said other stuff IS canon, and not mentioned that thing (e.g. Kai) then there's a stronger case that in fact it ISN'T canon than a for it being canon.

[Pendaran]

Oh I agree with Hazard on everything he said. Just not with Kai. That is basically where we are at atm. Way I see it; if AT had a hand in picking what should be in the show, and if nothing about it contradicts the manga in anyway, then it shouldn't be a problem to include it on here when talking canon.

Does anyone actually involved with the people making the thing say it is canon?

[buutenks]

She's near light, to be accurate. So, while a lot of those feats mentioned for her were.. used/described/held as valid in unfortunate ways, one of the ones from that Wonder Woman pile was her, Superman and the Walter West Flash superspeed monitoring a whole pile White Martians who thought they were human across the globe within a relatively short time span, such that they were basically invisible presences monitoring them, moving back and forth between them, dividing doing so up between them. Which is to say, the feat is not "she did something Walter was also doing", the feat was what they did (as frankly that's otherwise something of a low performance for Walter).

This is good, but only so good, as for instance, they knew where all of them were in the first place to watch them (the JLA had been existingly keeping track of these goobers). It's still nice enough for "Wonder Woman is certainly near light in superspeed reaction time". She has other junk like that.

Ah i see,alright then.So she has the speed advantage based off feats.

Now how much can she take,can she take a kick from 18 which broke ssj vegeta's arm?

[Pendaran]

Kai does not really fit into this. Toriyama has said, and I quote, he is writing the movie "as though it were a continuation of the manga when it was in serialization". No mention of the anime there.

You know that doesn't make it "canon" so much as make it something that you can argue works with the manga. The term "canon" is getting thrown around sort of.. frankly oddly.

While we're there, has he said something like this.. about anything else?