Do you really want "Peter Parker" to retire as Spider-Man permanently?

[MASTER-OF-SUPRISE]

you absolutely can, but ultimately its contrivance to keep him swinging. it doesn't feel true. the argument can be made that he puts his family in danger through being spider-man.

not only do i believe that peter would not want to risk his child ending up fatherless (which is exactly what happened to peter himself), but putting danger aside, being spider-man is time consuming and a child would be in danger of neglect (which is the lesson to be learned from harry osborn). i feel like peter is the guy to learn from mistakes and sins of the father, rather than being doomed to repeat them.

god. the idea of leaving mj (or any mother) at even the smallest risk of raising a child solo sounds horrific to me. if i was her, i would have some deep, deep problems with him even considering it. a lot of responsible men cut back on risks when a helpless human being comes into this world that depends on them and that's just stuff like not driving and texting at the same time.

strikes me as juvenile cake-and-eat-it. people seem to want "real world growing up" and that means sacrifices rather than i can do it all! look aunt may! seven kids, a wife and i'm holding down two jobs as well as writing a blog and my instagram. that's why i am...amazing!

that being said, it's a level of bullshit that i can handle because it's superhero comic books (even if i'd rather not). if we brought real world pressures into any of their lives, most of them would have collapsed or retired by now with or without kids.

okay two things. 1. That saying needs to be changed. Mainly because what else are you going to do with Cake? 2. Couldn't the argument also be made that he puts them in danger by not being Spider-Man. I mean it's not like Norman's gonna care if he's retired or not. To me it's no different than a cop that has kids and let's be honest in the Marvel universe cops die a lot. Just my two cents.

[LifeIsILL]

Since Spider-Girl was great....I don't see why not.

[Tuck]

okay two things. 1. That saying needs to be changed. Mainly because what else are you going to do with Cake?

I saw Harlan Ellison explain that the problem is that the phrase is backwards, hence the confusion. You can't eat your cake . . . and then also still have it . . . you know, like in your hand.

[jimishim12]

Just being curious here but what's your beef with MJ? I'm seeing a lot of backlash against her on this board as of late.

MJ is the standard elevated mugged damsel that serves as a direct link to the heroes human side ala Lois while being a nuisance in the face of the Spidey's evildoers and action activities. It's an old fashioned staple in American fiction and action series in general, a heroes non powered and completely beautiful love interest who is the first one of villian to exploit the suspension of the hero by kidnapping or holding her hostage.

It's outdated, which is why some people like gwen Stacy over her in Amazing Spider-Man, she actually proved to be not only useful but was one of keys to stop the villian. Plus in general the love interest even if not as strong or a game changer in the long run as the hero is usually is powerful enough to fight back and defeat one of the villian herself without a doubt or cheap tricks.

Examples are. Pepper Potts, Linda Carter, Princess Bubblegum, etc.

[Tuck]

When was the last time MJ was really helpless and waiting for Peter to save her? That's really something that happened more in the Raimi movies.

She has a pretty good history of fending off attackers on her own (I started laughing when she shot Norman), often not even mentioning it to Peter.

[Agent Z]

MJ is the standard elevated mugged damsel that serves as a direct link to the heroes human side ala Lois while being a nuisance in the face of the Spidey's evildoers and action activities. It's an old fashioned staple in American fiction and action series in general, a heroes non powered and completely beautiful love interest who is the first one of villian to exploit the suspension of the hero by kidnapping or holding her hostage.

It's outdated, which is why some people like gwen Stacy over her in Amazing Spider-Man, she actually proved to be not only useful but was one of keys to stop the villian. Plus in general the love interest even if not as strong or a game changer in the long run as the hero is usually is powerful enough to fight back and defeat one of the villian herself without a doubt or cheap tricks.

Examples are. Pepper Potts, Linda Carter, Princess Bubblegum, etc.

MJ hasn't always been a damsel in distress though. In fact, until ASM that was what Gwen was considered.

[R.K.Z]

which is why some people like gwen Stacy over her in Amazing Spider-Man, she actually proved to be not only useful but was one of keys to stop the villian. Plus in general the love interest even if not as strong or a game changer in the long run as the hero is usually is powerful enough to fight back and defeat one of the villian herself without a doubt or cheap tricks..

MJ was doing all those things in that comics that Gwen did in the movie years back.

In the 90s, she risked her unborn child to help Peter and Ben fight The Jackal and took out Chamelion with a baseball bat.

In the newspaper comics back in 2009, she took out two burglars who broke into her apartment. AND tried to fend off Doc Ock.

She shot Norman Osborn during the Marvel Knights storyline

As much as I dislike Superior, Slott still had MJ kick some Goblin goon tail during "Goblin Nation"

During Spider-Verse, Slott even had MC2 MJ stay behind in a BLAZING BUILDING to try and save her husband and give Mayday and Benjy cover, and when she couldn't save Peter, she was able to save her daughter's boyfriend Wes. In the same continuity a few years back, she took on Normie Osborn and won.

I swear, this revisionist history with MJ critics makes me laugh.

[jimishim12]

You do realize MJ was doing all those things Gwen did in the movie right?

I swear, this revisionist histrory with MJ critics makes me laugh.

Gwens was depicted as smart as Peter though and she helped Peter grow stronger by suggestions on how to use his powers creatively.

[R.K.Z]

Gwens was depicted as smart as Peter though and she helped Peter grow stronger by suggestions on how to use his powers creatively.

I don't see your point at all. MJ could be as intelligent and as resourceful in her own unique way and guided Peter through a lot of tasks with her pep talks and confidence in his abilities.

MJ has held her own several times. She is not a damsel, this is certified canon across multiple interpretations.

I apologize for saying this "made me laugh" btw, I think that was a bit unfair. It's just I have difficulty understanding some criticisms aimed at MJ sometimes. I respect your opinion, and if it's something you feel strong about, there is little wrong in that. Different interpretations help us weed out the strengths and weakness of a character

[Tuck]

Intelligence is an overrated trait, both in real life and in fiction.

Frankly, I prefer intelligence to be assigned to villains more than heroes. Norman and Otto are much more interesting than Reed.

[Agent Z]

Intelligence is an overrated trait, both in real life and in fiction.

Frankly, I prefer intelligence to be assigned to villains more than heroes. Norman and Otto are much more interesting than Reed.

Intelligence overrated? That's a first. Also I don't think you want your heroes to come across as dumb muscle. The guy in your avatar has had this problem for a long time.

[jimishim12]

Can't we just all agree Felicia Hardy is Spider-Man's most badass love interest of the three and blows MJ outta the water when it comes to holding her own against Spidey's foes.

[Agent Z]

Can't we just all agree Felicia Hardy is Spider-Man's most badass love interest of the three and blows MJ outta the water when it comes to holding her own against Spidey's foes.

Nah it's the 'net. We have to disagree. What purpose would we have

[R.K.Z]

Can't we just all agree Felicia Hardy is Spider-Man's most badass love interest of the three and blows MJ outta the water when it comes to holding her own against Spidey's foes.

No, because Felicia does not love Peter the way MJ does and, as current canon dictates, is willing and able to become one of Spidey's foes if her memories and ego slip

[Kevinroc]

MJ is the standard elevated mugged damsel that serves as a direct link to the heroes human side ala Lois while being a nuisance in the face of the Spidey's evildoers and action activities. It's an old fashioned staple in American fiction and action series in general, a heroes non powered and completely beautiful love interest who is the first one of villian to exploit the suspension of the hero by kidnapping or holding her hostage.

It's outdated, which is why some people like gwen Stacy over her in Amazing Spider-Man, she actually proved to be not only useful but was one of keys to stop the villian. Plus in general the love interest even if not as strong or a game changer in the long run as the hero is usually is powerful enough to fight back and defeat one of the villian herself without a doubt or cheap tricks.

Examples are. Pepper Potts, Linda Carter, Princess Bubblegum, etc.

Please tell me again how MJ is so helpless.