DC Comics Cancels "Batgirl" Joker Variant at Artist's Request

[hunter_peterson]

Nah, the complaint is largely that the Batgirl cover treats the lead character in a far less respectful way than any of the other variant covers.

If Superman, Batman and Green Lantern's covers also featured them powerless, terrified and crying then there wouldn't be this issue.




Or Dick. How many times did the Joker strip Dick naked and take pictures?

There was that time the Joker tied up Batman and Robin and filmed a beastiality porno with a goat. It was referenced in canon in the Penguin miniseries in 2011.

And I wouldn't say that it's disrespectful for someone to be afraid in a very clearly compromising situation. It's like people consider victims of crimes to be inferior to other people. What about the covers that feature Batman as a child surrounded by the corpses of his parents? Isn't that worse?

[thecrimson]

The point of Batgirl, or any other hero, is that they WOULDN'T act like any of us in that situation. By definition, they would be heroic.

I didn't realize there are people who don't think the Joker raped Barbara Gordon in The Killing Joke.

I didn't realize it was explicitly stated she was raped and not just interpreted by some to be rape.

[Cipher]

If they aren't reading the books they have no right to be offended, because it has nothing to do with their interests. They literally don't know what they're talking about, then. And they would be incapable of understanding the context of the cover.

The point is more that there might be people who want to red the books, or are at the very least interested in seeing a better field for female superheroes, and might not be reading because of things like this.

DC would be the first to tell you they're not interested in only playing to existing audiences.

And everyone who's part of this conversation here (and I'd guess at large, if you're savvy enough to be concerned over cover previews) knows what The Killing Joke is.

I didn't realize it was explicitly stated she was raped and not just interpreted by some to be rape.

I don't know that I've ever read it as, like ... intercourse (I feel really disgusting going this far into it), but sexual assault, definitely, just in the fact that she was stripped nude and posed. Sexual no matter how you slice it.

[Rakzo]

Hey, at least Jason Todd gets to be defined by a story that he had agency in and was actually about him.

Not really, it was more about Batman and how he dealt with his death.

[themasething]

I didn't realize there are people who don't think the Joker raped Barbara Gordon in The Killing Joke.

To be completely honest, the scene is left "to the readers imagination" so only those who want to insert a rape narrative would see the scene as rape. To me personally I see it more as a "sexualized humiliation" in order to break Jim Gordon. A reminder of how his daughter is shot and when she is found, will be humiliated due to being found naked. It's more psychological torture than anything else.

But then again, who among us, including writers can really see inside the mind of The Joker?

If you're seeing rape in the scene, then there is something in your mind that wants you to see rape in the scene. I prefer to see the scene as something less terrible yet more psychologically tormentaive.

[hunter_peterson]

People who complained about the cover got Death Threats?

Obviously, that cannot be allowed to stand. I imagine that everyone who's posted in this thread worried about censorship and intimidation will now be 100% behind the decision not to use the cover, because We Can't Let People Get Their Own Way With Violence!

Right?

Obviously that cannot stand, but that doesn't mean that they're right or that the cover should be pulled. Being threatened is not an argument winner, it's a separate issue.

EDIT: And Internet threats of violence are not even intimidating, really. They're almost always hollow and pathetic.

[Zarathos]

You know, I mentioned in a thread about tweets Erik Larsen made that I pretty much stopped following comic creators on Twitter because they say the dumbest stuff and it ruins the books for me. Well this comment and the comment Cameron Stewart made about people only liking Batgirl's previous costume so they could pleasure themselves to it has pretty much ruined this run for me.

Agreed . I already didnt feel that the new Batgirl was for me . I feel they made less competent for the sake of her "acting her age" , and i'm not feeling the new costume indeed . Nothing against "unsexualized" costumes , i must actually among the ones ok with Spider-Woman's new attire ...it just looks ugly and too cutesy for my taste .

But i digress , like i said i agree with the notion such blurbs from creators can indeed kill the mood and the will to follow a serie . It definitively did and convince me that his book certainly wont be for me and my peculiar taste .

And the whole " it goes against the tone of the books" bit from posters and insiders makes no sense to me . We even had to deal with deadpool and Tron months , for books right in the middle of somewhat important and serious stories , without being distracted from those . It's a variant , it usually got nothingor little to do with the content

[Coal Tiger]

Not really, it was more about Batman and how he dealt with his death.

So I guess Jason Todd's mother was in the story so Batman could react to her?

[Ravyn]

So I just heard about this:

Cameron Stewart said that the threats the DC statement was referring to were the ones made against people objecting to the cover.


Imagine that.

Not surprising at all. How much do you want to bet most of those receiving the threats were women?

There's a vocal minority of male genre fans who are terribly frightened by the influx of women and minorities who also enjoy their chosen hobbies and they have been reacting with threat of rape and violence. Gamergate is the major example.

Considering that DC is making a huge push at welcoming this new audience by publicizing the diversity of their new post-Convergence series, its only smart business for them to listen to their audience and not publish this retrograde vision of a victimized Batgirl, especially as it would only serve to drive away the audience that they are hoping to attract to the book.

[Nite-Wing]

I didn't realize it was explicitly stated she was raped and not just interpreted by some to be rape.

Well I'm pretty sure Alan Moore said she wasn't raped but what happened to her(the stripping and photos of her nude) being taken is sexual assault so its neither here nor there for some people

[Pinsir]

i'm not too familiar with that incident ..but the book is still churning out new issues?
jeez

the joker is'nt my favourite character too but i do understand at the core, he's insane.
if he can't be insane and do sadistic things then..his value as a character is gone IMO

The book is still turning out new issues, but it has to have an affect on his writing and he direction of his work.

culture is a different topic altogether and if you wish, you could PM me on that.
i don't wish to de-rail the topic :^)

I might just make a thread tomorrow about it. You are right, it is off-topic.

[hunter_peterson]

Time to knock down a lot of high horses in this thread.

Good god.

Again, being threatened doesn't validate their opinion nor does it mean the book should be pulled. It means some people were dicks to some other people. All of these people need to find better things to be angry about.

[Scymiral]

To be completely honest, the scene is left "to the readers imagination" so only those who want to insert a rape narrative would see the scene as rape. To me personally I see it more as a "sexualized humiliation" in order to break Jim Gordon. A reminder of how his daughter is shot and when she is found, will be humiliated due to being found naked. It's more psychological torture than anything else.

But then again, who among us, including writers can really see inside the mind of The Joker?

If you're seeing rape in the scene, then there is something in your mind that wants you to see rape in the scene. I prefer to see the scene as something less terrible yet more psychologically tormentaive.

There's something in my mind that wants to see rape in the scene? Do you think it's because I've got a rapist inside of me eager to get out? I love rape? You're so certain and definitive in your assessment of someone you've never contacted with that I just have to ask.

[dick_wingnut]

I dont ever remember it being said she was raped in Killing Joke, people just want to interpret it that way to suit their case against this cover.

A cover with nothing sexual about it at all, it speaks more of the mindset of the outraged that they even see it that way.

I liked it better before these hysterical bleeding hearts could congeal on the internet into a giant bleating megaphone.

[Rakzo]

So I guess Jason Todd's mother was in the story so Batman could react to her?

Nope, but it was the last time that Jason was supposedly going to appear (and it was going to be Canon) so they needed to include something.