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  1. #1
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    Default Granny Weatherwax vs. Lord Voldemort

    Straight up arena fight. Book version of Lord Voldemort. No prep. Can the bad ass from bad ass take the dark lord in a magic fight?

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    The longer they have to prepare, the worst it will look like for Voldemort, but ultimately it's a 'yes' even straight-up, if a slightly more tenuous one.
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    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Given that psychic defences are a thing in Harry Potter and the vast majority of Weatherwax's offence stems from her Headology, Voldemort kills her at the bell with his favourite go-to spell.

    I'm willing to bet that someone is going to bring up that whole "atomic deconstruction" thing that Weatherwax did in Lords and Ladies, to which my response is that she's never shown it in a combat setting, she's only ever done it once and Voldemort is faster than her anyway.

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    E-Liter3K Scoped Headshot The MunchKING's Avatar
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    Well she does HAVE a variety of powerful other magics, she just uses the Headology all the time because it's easier, takes less power, and is arguably funnier.

    For example she beat the head of the Unseen University in a straight Wizard's Duel (possibly because wizards didn't duel much when they could backstab).
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    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    Well she does HAVE a variety of powerful other magics, she just uses the Headology all the time because it's easier, takes less power, and is arguably funnier.

    For example she beat the head of the Unseen University in a straight Wizard's Duel (possibly because wizards didn't duel much when they could backstab).
    Her showings in Equal Rites are kind of crazy out of place with everything else she's ever done and, if I recall right, it's kind of ambiguous as to whether they were actually transforming or whether it was just illusions. Doesn't change the fact that Voldy is still faster and has a death curse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Given that psychic defences are a thing in Harry Potter and the vast majority of Weatherwax's offence stems from her Headology, Voldemort kills her at the bell with his favourite go-to spell.

    I'm willing to bet that someone is going to bring up that whole "atomic deconstruction" thing that Weatherwax did in Lords and Ladies, to which my response is that she's never shown it in a combat setting, she's only ever done it once and Voldemort is faster than her anyway.


    I don't know why you'd possibly think Voldemort's faster. Granny specifically has excellent reflexes and a flying broomstick (even if yes, it does require a bit of a run-up), and Voldemort still has to hit people with his curses.

    Things I would bother bringing up include the fact we've seen her deflect magical energies (specifically in a battle, mind), shape-shift to things that - given the limited application of Avra Kadavar in the books against anything other than humans - should make affecting her with it rather more questionable, and go next to invisible nearly at will. Headology's far from the bulk of her offense either, merely her favorite, and since she happens to be the best at it while Riddle's nothing too crazy by comparison, I certainly wouldn't back him to hold her off indefinitely.
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    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alias View Post
    I don't know why you'd possibly think Voldemort's faster. Granny specifically has excellent reflexes and a flying broomstick (even if yes, it does require a bit of a run-up), and Voldemort still has to hit people with his curses.
    Voldemort's speed is mostly derived from him and Dumbledore having a duel and the two of them moving and attacking faster than Harry could follow. It's not much but it's faster than anything I can think of for Granny offhand.

    Things I would bother bringing up include the fact we've seen her deflect magical energies (specifically in a battle, mind),
    Which would be useful if Avada Kedavra is noted to be specifically unblockable by all but the most powerful of ancient magics.

    shape-shift to things that - given the limited application of Avra Kadavar in the books against anything other than humans - should make affecting her with it rather more questionable,
    Her apparent shapeshifting in Equal Rites, as noted above, is a massive outlier in terms of everything she did after that book and was kind of ambiguous as to whether it was actual transformation or just illusions. Either way, not the strongest defence to go with.

    and go next to invisible nearly at will.
    Which... I think Voldy can do as well. Might be misremembering that.

    Headology's far from the bulk of her offense either, merely her favorite, and since she happens to be the best at it while Riddle's nothing too crazy by comparison, I certainly wouldn't back him to hold her off indefinitely.
    Yeah, my point is he only needs to hold her off long enough to shoot her once. Given Voldy's superior speed, noted telepathic abilities and his much superior offensive game, I'm thinking he has the advantage.

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    E-Liter3K Scoped Headshot The MunchKING's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Which... I think Voldy can do as well. Might be misremembering that.
    I think he had the "Visible but clouds men's minds so they don't notice him" version.

    Yeah, my point is he only needs to hold her off long enough to shoot her once. Given Voldy's superior speed, noted telepathic abilities and his much superior offensive game, I'm thinking he has the advantage.
    His telepathy (and indeed a lot of Potterverse command magic) was resistible by willpower IIRC. And Granny has Willpower in Spades, Hearts, Clubs, and Diamonds.


    The death magic is the big game changer in my opinion. I'd have to see whether she had feats for stopping anything on that magnitude.

    In the Arena I wouldn't think their would be many nonsentients for her to Borrow into to save her soul that way.
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    Granny's done things like catch spears (trivially, I think) before. Likewise, not much, but easily on par with anything I can recall of Voldemort.

    Equal Rites is heavily referenced in one of the Tiffany Aching books. Up to and specifically including Granny's duel with Cutangle, I believe.

    I'll get back to the rest later, if there's any need.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Voldemort's speed is mostly derived from him and Dumbledore having a duel and the two of them moving and attacking faster than Harry could follow. It's not much but it's faster than anything I can think of for Granny offhand.
    This is simply wrong.

    Harry could follow every move made by Voldemort and Dumbledore just fine, which is why we have a pretty comprehensive blow-by-blow account of the duel.

    There are various things that point towards impressive-ish reaction speeds (at least for real world human standards), but the duel at the Ministry is not one of those.

    Which... I think Voldy can do as well. Might be misremembering that.
    No, he can do it.

    It is the disillusionment spell, I think, that for most people gives something in the style of Predator camo, but for Voldemort results in actual invisibility. We see it from his perspective when he goes claim the Elder Wand from Dumbledore's tomb.

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    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    The big problem with the Equal Rites fight is it sort of ignores things that are later established about shape shifting in Discworld and how bad the long term implications can be for your morphenigenic field. Esme wouldn't risk that for what basically amounted to a pissing match anyway, so illusions are much more likely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    The big problem with the Equal Rites fight is it sort of ignores things that are later established about shape shifting in Discworld and how bad the long term implications can be for your morphenigenic field. Esme wouldn't risk that for what basically amounted to a pissing match anyway, so illusions are much more likely.
    I thought you had to stay in an alternate form for a while before it would muck up your morphenigenic field. Or, like Greedo, be really close to what you're transforming into anyway.
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    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    I thought you had to stay in an alternate form for a while before it would muck up your morphenigenic field. Or, like Greedo, be really close to what you're transforming into anyway.
    I'm going from memory here, but I recall it being a generally risky endeavor. Past the really early stuff, I recall there being very little direct transformation. Part of why Granny preferred to make people think they were frogs rather than turn them into frogs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    I'm going from memory here, but I recall it being a generally risky endeavor. Past the really early stuff, I recall there being very little direct transformation. Part of why Granny preferred to make people think they were frogs rather than turn them into frogs.
    I thought the reason she made people think they were frogs was because it was easier and nastier.

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    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acecool View Post
    I thought the reason she made people think they were frogs was because it was easier and nastier.
    That was part of it, but I seem to recall morphenigenic fields being a factor as well. Once you start turning things into other things, the odds of it happening to the thing again is very high.

    http://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Morphogenic_field

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