PREVIEW: Guardians of the Galaxy, #25

[CBR News]

Chapter 7 of the BLACK VORTEX!
• Double-sizes spectacular! Rocket and Magik in action! Beast defeated and broken! Gamora on the offensive! Ronan deposed! Star-Lord defiant! Nova gives chase! This issue surely has it all!


Full article here.

[MarvelMaster616]

Wow. So Beast has to irreparably break the universe to realize what a massive tool he's become? Yet nobody gives him a fraction of the crap they give Cyclops? I can't remember the last time an established character was this unlikable who wasn't named Fantomex. I hope this puts Beast's character on the road to recovery, but I'm not holding my breath.

[UnRiel]

Seems like confirmation that the original X-Men will not be going back to their original time

[UnRiel]

Wow. So Beast has to irreparably break the universe to realize what a massive tool he's become? Yet nobody gives him a fraction of the crap they give Cyclops? I can't remember the last time an established character was this unlikable who wasn't named Fantomex. I hope this puts Beast's character on the road to recovery, but I'm not holding my breath.

I suspect this is the beginning of the arc that replaces present McCoy with All New X-Men McCoy.

[vitruvian]

Seems like confirmation that the original X-Men will not be going back to their original time

So, here's a theory. Doom may be claiming the title of the Great Destroyer, but the event that actually kicked off the Incursions and the multiversal collapse was the removal of the O5 from what started out as the true past of the 616 universe, but retroactively became an alternate timeline/universe when it became clear the O5 were not returning (at some point after Tyke's NDE having a causal effect on modern-day Cyke). That timeline proceeded to the point where the Mad Emperor D'Ken unleashed the M'Kraan Crystal, and without a Jean Grey to be duplicated/merged/whatever with the Phoenix Force shortly beforehand and be instrumental in locking it down again, that universe was the first to be obliterated, setting off the chain reaction of Incursions throughout the multiverse.

This fits with what we've been told by Reed Richards and others is fairly certain... on some other Earth, an event occurred which led to the early death of that universe and started the Incursion process. That event could as easily have been the arrival of a time travelling Hank McCoy to remove the O5, at least one (if not more) of whom was to be important to saving the universe from destruction a few years later, as the birth of the Black Swan's possibly mythologized Great Destroyer.

[davew128]

So, here's a theory. Doom may be claiming the title of the Great Destroyer, but the event that actually kicked off the Incursions and the multiversal collapse was the removal of the O5 from what started out as the true past of the 616 universe, but retroactively became an alternate timeline/universe when it became clear the O5 were not returning (at some point after Tyke's NDE having a causal effect on modern-day Cyke). That timeline proceeded to the point where the Mad Emperor D'Ken unleashed the M'Kraan Crystal, and without a Jean Grey to be duplicated/merged/whatever with the Phoenix Force shortly beforehand and be instrumental in locking it down again, that universe was the first to be obliterated, setting off the chain reaction of Incursions throughout the multiverse.

This fits with what we've been told by Reed Richards and others is fairly certain... on some other Earth, an event occurred which led to the early death of that universe and started the Incursion process. That event could as easily have been the arrival of a time travelling Hank McCoy to remove the O5, at least one (if not more) of whom was to be important to saving the universe from destruction a few years later, as the birth of the Black Swan's possibly mythologized Great Destroyer.

The problem with this theory is all the What Ifs? and other timelines which have shown the actual destruction of a universe. Korvac's What If? is the best example, though any other alternate timeline could have something similar where a universal threat succeeded and wasn't stopped. Abraxas, Doom in FF 611, anything involving an Infinity Gauntlet, what Thanos did in Marvel: The End, the Black Celestial in FF, the list goes on and on.

[Superkreep]

I thought that although Doom became the Great Destroyer the stuff that destabilized the multi-verse in the first place is all the time travel shenanigans going on throughout the Marvel U as whole. Sure Age of Ultron and the O'5, contributed but even those are just drops in the bucket when you add in all of older stuff involving Thanos, Apocalypse, Kang, The Phoenix, Days of Future Past, pretty much all of it contributed to the upcoming Secret Wars event. All these divergent timelines just running out of places to exist, so somebody/something had to clean them up. When editorial says some of the characters we've known and loved may not make it through the other side of Secret Wars I'm thinking they are talking about a lot of alternate reality mainstays of the MU. People like Bishop, Cable and Rachel Grey immediately come to mind.

Anywhoo, Here's a "what if?" for everyone.

What if this team of Guardian's could manage to NOT get captured in every flarkin' book they appear in?
Literally since this team debuted it's been capture, after capture, after capture, after capture, and not just in this title, in ALL their other titles too.
Talk about derivative 1 trick ponies. Any cosmic villain worth their salt would have gone for kills by now not this silly capture/recapture that's occured for the past 2 years straight. Honestly, it looks like the comic based on the new animated series has featured the team actually being Guardians "of the Galaxy" more so than this entire run has...and it's like only 2 issues in. They should probably call this run "Guardians of their own Asses", lol.

This book and these characters are in the most DIRE need of a creative shake up. The pace it's going and the stories they've been telling are so uninspired and feel like they are simply wasting time while all the good stuff is being done BETTER over in the Star Wars and Avengers side of the Marvel fence. I worry because once Hollywood finishes mining all the epic Jim Starlin, Keith Giffen, and DnA material there won't be anything left for them to look at and the GotG and cosmic in general will be done for another decade or so. James Gunn who now eats sleeps and breathes Guardians of The Galaxy has distanced himself from this run several times already, there is literally nothing worth adapting for him here. If that's not a sign of a severely lacking run I don't know what is.

For now I feel that over all cosmic and sci-fi in general is alive and well at Marvel, but it's all happening over in Hickman's Avengers books instead of here.
It makes the GotG feel unneeded they are no longer that special group of misfit heroes that inspired a worldwide mega hit film and that just sucks all kinds of ass.

[vitruvian]

I thought that although Doom became the Great Destroyer the stuff that destabilized the multi-verse in the first place is all the time travel shenanigans going on throughout the Marvel U as whole. Sure Age of Ultron and the O'5, contributed but even those are just drops in the bucket when you add in all of older stuff involving Thanos, Apocalypse, Kang, The Phoenix, Days of Future Past, pretty much all of it contributed to the upcoming Secret Wars event. All these divergent timelines just running out of places to exist, so somebody/something had to clean them up. When editorial says some of the characters we've known and loved may not make it through the other side of Secret Wars I'm thinking they are talking about a lot of alternate reality mainstays of the MU. People like Bishop, Cable and Rachel Grey immediately come to mind.

It's a theory, but not one with any strong evidence for it that I've seen. I'm going by what Reed Richards and Black Swan agree on... something happened on an alternate Earth that killed that universe early, starting off the Incursions. Sure, Age of Ultron supposedly broke time, but it's precisely all those older time travel stories without anybody mentioning that this kind of thing would eventually destroy the multiverse - even the Time Variance Authority, they were always focused on specific infractions, not stopping all time travel due to a cumulative effect - that leaves me skeptical the two are linked.

[vitruvian]

The problem with this theory is all the What Ifs? and other timelines which have shown the actual destruction of a universe. Korvac's What If? is the best example, though any other alternate timeline could have something similar where a universal threat succeeded and wasn't stopped. Abraxas, Doom in FF 611, anything involving an Infinity Gauntlet, what Thanos did in Marvel: The End, the Black Celestial in FF, the list goes on and on.

Some of those threats are multiversal in scope, others are not... and any that are multiversal (e.g., Abraxas) need to have been stopped in every universe, or the multiverse already ended. Others, such as the action of the Infinity Gauntlet (pretty certain on this one, actually) or possibly certain uses of the Ultimate Nullifier, could be restricted to one universe without ramifications for the neighboring ones. Perhaps, until 'now', the opening of the M'Kraan Crystal was one of those multiversal threats that was somehow contained in every universe and timeline?

[THANOSRULES]

I thought that although Doom became the Great Destroyer the stuff that destabilized the multi-verse in the first place is all the time travel shenanigans going on throughout the Marvel U as whole. Sure Age of Ultron and the O'5, contributed but even those are just drops in the bucket when you add in all of older stuff involving Thanos, Apocalypse, Kang, The Phoenix, Days of Future Past, pretty much all of it contributed to the upcoming Secret Wars event. All these divergent timelines just running out of places to exist, so somebody/something had to clean them up. When editorial says some of the characters we've known and loved may not make it through the other side of Secret Wars I'm thinking they are talking about a lot of alternate reality mainstays of the MU. People like Bishop, Cable and Rachel Grey immediately come to mind.

Anywhoo, Here's a "what if?" for everyone.

What if this team of Guardian's could manage to NOT get captured in every flarkin' book they appear in?
Literally since this team debuted it's been capture, after capture, after capture, after capture, and not just in this title, in ALL their other titles too.
Talk about derivative 1 trick ponies. Any cosmic villain worth their salt would have gone for kills by now not this silly capture/recapture that's occured for the past 2 years straight. Honestly, it looks like the comic based on the new animated series has featured the team actually being Guardians "of the Galaxy" more so than this entire run has...and it's like only 2 issues in. They should probably call this run "Guardians of their own Asses", lol.

This book and these characters are in the most DIRE need of a creative shake up. The pace it's going and the stories they've been telling are so uninspired and feel like they are simply wasting time while all the good stuff is being done BETTER over in the Star Wars and Avengers side of the Marvel fence. I worry because once Hollywood finishes mining all the epic Jim Starlin, Keith Giffen, and DnA material there won't be anything left for them to look at and the GotG and cosmic in general will be done for another decade or so. James Gunn who now eats sleeps and breathes Guardians of The Galaxy has distanced himself from this run several times already, there is literally nothing worth adapting for him here. If that's not a sign of a severely lacking run I don't know what is.

For now I feel that over all cosmic and sci-fi in general is alive and well at Marvel, but it's all happening over in Hickman's Avengers books instead of here.
It makes the GotG feel unneeded they are no longer that special group of misfit heroes that inspired a worldwide mega hit film and that just sucks all kinds of ass.

When you mention to clean up timelines, the irony appears the SW zones are mostly brand new continuity timelines or amalgams of others. This new "IG" zone looks like something new..IG-ish with a dash of insects (Annihilation?) obviously the Monster zone, Planet Hulk and Weirdworld look totally new mash-ups..as do even the Ultimate stuff (as tmany of the characters were killed off so many look like staggered timelines rather than realities)

Unlike Crisis on Infinite Earths, this seems designed to make things more confusing.

[XPac]

I still find it weird that Beast using time travel is considered such a big deal since we've seen plenty of people use time travel since then. If anything I think the usage of time travel in stories has slightly INCREASED since time was supposedly broken after age of Ultron.

[Kurolegacy]

Seems like confirmation that the original X-Men will not be going back to their original time

There are so many workarounds that, unless they've actually tried, there's no real issue.

[XPac]

There are so many workarounds that, unless they've actually tried, there's no real issue.

Course, if all of time and space are coming to an end in Hickman's story anyways, does it really matter if time is broken? Beast broke something that's going to end anyways.

[TresDias]

So, here's a theory. Doom may be claiming the title of the Great Destroyer, but the event that actually kicked off the Incursions and the multiversal collapse was the removal of the O5 from what started out as the true past of the 616 universe, but retroactively became an alternate timeline/universe when it became clear the O5 were not returning (at some point after Tyke's NDE having a causal effect on modern-day Cyke). That timeline proceeded to the point where the Mad Emperor D'Ken unleashed the M'Kraan Crystal, and without a Jean Grey to be duplicated/merged/whatever with the Phoenix Force shortly beforehand and be instrumental in locking it down again, that universe was the first to be obliterated, setting off the chain reaction of Incursions throughout the multiverse.

This fits with what we've been told by Reed Richards and others is fairly certain... on some other Earth, an event occurred which led to the early death of that universe and started the Incursion process. That event could as easily have been the arrival of a time travelling Hank McCoy to remove the O5, at least one (if not more) of whom was to be important to saving the universe from destruction a few years later, as the birth of the Black Swan's possibly mythologized Great Destroyer.

It definitely fits, and I like that theory a lot. The only problem I see with it is that "All-New X-Men" #1 and 2 aren't included in the "Secret Wars Prelude." If this was what caused the multiversal collapse (and it totally makes sense, so good job!), shouldn't those issues be there?

Still, there must be some reason we have Hank looking at what he's done to space-time and remarking "Everything dies" -- while looking like a Beyonder no less!

It's a theory, but not one with any strong evidence for it that I've seen. I'm going by what Reed Richards and Black Swan agree on... something happened on an alternate Earth that killed that universe early, starting off the Incursions. Sure, Age of Ultron supposedly broke time, but it's precisely all those older time travel stories without anybody mentioning that this kind of thing would eventually destroy the multiverse - even the Time Variance Authority, they were always focused on specific infractions, not stopping all time travel due to a cumulative effect - that leaves me skeptical the two are linked.

Well, all the willy nilly time fuckery would still be the cause if Hank bringing the O5 to the present is what did it, as "Age of Ultron" was the straw that broke the camel's back -- the Time Camel's back.

It's because of time being broken following "Age of Ultron" that time travel no longer produces alternate universes. So, really, if Hank's mistake of bringing the O5 to the present was what killed the multiverse, it's only because he did it after "Age of Ultron," when time was already too screwed up.