Is Sins Past better left alone?

[Ozymandias]

What would then?

We discussed extensively about it, much of the time against my better judgement, and I advocated for the less intrusive solution, which I outlined in this post.

[Ursalink]

Honestly, if they are to "reshape reality", I think "Sins Past" would suit much better at MC2's reality. Only one difference: Peter would be the father of Gabriel and Sarah as originally planned, not Norman Osborn. Of course, Osborn would still be behind of the twins; as they were "artificially" created with Peter and Gwen's DNA. (Sounds gross, but considering what Osoborn did in MC2 with Mayday when she was a baby, it sounds credible).

[SidheKnight]

They should never mention these terrible, dark, "mature" stories again. Like The Killing JOke.

dafuq?

The Kiling Joke is a classic and very well regarded story.

Also, I think we don't get enough mature, serious stories in superhero comic books (I mean real mature, not "mature" as in gratuitous sex & gore for edgy teenagers like most of the 90's was, or the cynical-up-to-eleven Ultimate Universe).

[Vixx]

Edit - sorry for the long post. Yes, I joined just to reply here ... Glad others remember this story and hate it as much as I do

Forget all the super villans and the spider man stuff- and focus on the normal, human Gwen/Peter narrative.

Gwen was to Peter what a lot of us find in our late teens / early 20's - She was attractive, popular, and smart, but likely out of his league. He was in her orbit, thanks to friends, and he pretty much ignored her in only the way a guy with no game does. While normally it would end there - she noticed something special in him (being smart) and as they grew closer to each other, and to a group of friends as well. While some of these kids were awful to him in the early episodes, Peter slowly came out of his shell and realized the abilities that made him different - were a positive.

If memory serves, they went back and forth with a lot of missed opportunities, missed understandings and what not but finally managed to become a happy couple. He had problems with her family not liking him, adapting to the responsibilities that happen after high school, and friends that start to do crazy things and drift slowly from the tight group of high school.

He helped her through the death of her father - in a way that only someone whose been there can do. He understood her. This was 30 issues before her death - she would have leaned on the guy who knew her best (and the one her dad liked) - the one she had fun with, slept with, basically grew up with...and Peter was there for her. He didn't runaway. He accepted her anger, was there for her, gave her space, and helped her heal...and in the process, they grew close enough to consider marriage. They struggled a bit more in their relationship, more misunderstandings...more growth - and this relationship ultimately ended.

Immediately after her death - Peter is supporting his friend who also lost a dad, is working in a place that's covering the story 24x7, mourning his loss and ultimately pulling back a friend that turned to drugs and went off the deep end... and he ultimately accepts his new normal.

As he gets older, Peter reflects on that relationship and what he learned from it. He talks to her for guidance and appreciates how they grew up with each other; and I think that really helps him in his next relationship - especially when he realizes MJ is the one. Peter is not the same - and never dates a "wholesome" type girl again.

The problem I have - is the 121 issues do not support the character acting in a way that makes "Sins" work. The tight group of friends, the interactions between Norman and Peter, everything that happened to get them to where they are that night...and afterwards - simply do not support this narrative. It really takes a sledge hammer to the foundation of Peter Parker, and is not just a bad story - it's dangerous.

I don't care what the writers say. They were sleeping together. It's not splashed across the pages of 60s/70s books ... but given their age, the context, their group of friends... it's natural to their development as people and makes sense. It's part of why he looks back at her with such fondness - they were both innocent figuring out all that couple stuff together. Having her randomly go after Norman because of "power" makes no sense. He was a DICK to that group most of the run, and honestly they already played that angle with a working Peter vs a trust fund Harry. If Norman was sleeping with any of the "kids" it would of been MJ. Her narrative supported it - and frankly, it would have been a much more honest story. MJ was the wild one, with a troubled past.... Gwen grew up in Captain Stacy's house.

The story was cut short and just lazy - If you wanted to create chaos; Peter could have found out from MJ something that she was hiding (maybe she put a kid up for adoption, had an abortion, spent time in jail, had a girlfriend in college...whatever)- then Peter leaves for a bit. Looks up Felicia on Facebook. Reconnects. Seen the life he could have had, and bring in some Spiderman nostalgia before realizing he had everything he ever wanted in MJ; despite her past dalliances.

[thecrimson]

Also - the Satan story never happened. They are still married, just on a break.

What are you talking about? If that's in reference to OMD/OMIT and all that, then no they are not still married.

[Vixx]

What are you talking about? If that's in reference to OMD/OMIT and all that, then no they are not still married.

I stated that poorly -

What I meant was that selling the marriage to satan story was a horrid "nuking the fridge" type story to me ... A bad piece of writing, up there among the worst right after sins past and that creepy arc with doc ock taking over his body....

In my head, it (or sins past) never happened .. They are just on a break...

We know reality, no need to destroy the fantasy ..

[Loose Threads]

In my head, it (or sins past) never happened .. They are just on a break...

It's not that common, it does'nt happen to every guy, and IT IS A BIG DEAL!

[Speed Force League Unlimited]

I love that story, and I do enjoy its follow up.
It contains some stupid bits, not strong fit in continuity, and chapter IV can be skipped completely, you won't miss a thing if you don't go near it.

It best remains forgotten.

[eSoldier]

I love that story, and I do enjoy its follow up.
It contains some stupid bits, not strong fit in continuity, and chapter IV can be skipped completely, you won't miss a thing if you don't go near it.

It best remains forgotten.

Well, what do you know. I'm not the only one who likes Sins Past.

[Scott Taylor]

I liked it, too, and see it as a deep story filled with pathos and I would like to see someone follow up on it someday. That said, it might have been better as a What If story. Sins Remembered is the only true follow up on the story, and it had mixed success as a story.

[Speed Force League Unlimited]

There is the American Son mini, it shows Gabriel Osborn shooting his brother.

[Haquim]

I loathe OMD, yet I think I could have brought myself to stomach it if it had retconned Sins Past out of existence...