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  1. #2836
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi View Post
    Haha yes that has been shown to much at some times =) I'm just wondering because I see a lot of Gambit pursuing it but nothing from Rogue. I get that she is showing her pokerface with the power out of control being a convinient metaphor for her guarded approach. It's just that in earlier x-men comics you could see something behind it, something that made it interesting and fun. Something that made you understand why Remy just didn't stop and move on. Now it's more late season How I meet your mother where Robin moved on and Ted kept reseting to default whenever his story wasn't about his new love. No one liked Ted there because it was sad, repeative and ultimatly boring. That is how I feel about Gambit whith this comic.

    Maybe I will read through it again to try to find some sentenance that hints that Rogue still loves him. Maybe that is. As it is now I wouldn't pick up issue 2 unless KT has said things will change. I love reading about equall partners. A lifetime of old hollywood dung has made me appreciate confident women who go after what they want. I know Rogue apperently isn't in that place now but I want a equall relationship with them. Lovers or friends doesn't matter. Not more of this 80/20 crap that Marvel seems so happy with.
    Hi Malachi,

    I see where you are coming from. Rogue is extremely guarded in this issue, even moreso than we've seen in the past. I mean, sure she punched Gambit in X-Men #4 after the basketball game when he asked her out, but she still went out with him afterwards and put a lot of effort in her date night look. So yes, you knew she cared. But this time, she isn't giving in at all and I think it's because she scared. She knows she can fall for Gambit and hard. She told Kitty their relationship was "in flux" not that it was completely over. She doesn't correct Gambit when he says their romantic life is "...on pause. Or something." by saying their romantic relationship is over. She is, as donpricetag said, running (you are so right donpricetag - she is a runner! Maybe not against scary world-ending scenarios or powerful villains, but when it comes to personal stuff. I LOVE Rogue, but come on, she didn't even reveal her name for ages. We still don't know her real last name. And we don't even have a backstory to why she kept it a secret!). Kissing Deadpool, kissing Bishop, lying on a bed next to Johnny Storm doesn't scare her because these men don't mean the same to her like Gambit does. She is scared of losing control and losing her heart with Remy because he means the most to her and that is why she is completely on edge with him. He startles her easily in hallways, she doesn't want him in the War Room session, she doesn't want to go to dinner with him, doesn't want to share a room with him, she is scared of having an open and honest therapy session with him. She is scared of confronting their relationship problems. My opinion is it that she still loves Remy and doesn't know how to make it work and it terrifies her because it hurts the most.

    But in regards for your hope that the following issues will take a different tone on their relationship, I think we can make a safe bet that they well. I think Kelly mentioned that issue 2 was her favourite (simply because issue 1 had to have a lot of set up content, hence the current 80/20 stance). And then Kelly mentioned that issue 3 was crazy sexy so I am predicting that is only possible if Rogue starts to let down her walls and begin reciprocating. And I would agree that a whole five-part mini series of 80/20 would get really boring and frustrating fast.

  2. #2837
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    That was an awesome analysis, LegoLiz!

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  4. #2839
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couplest View Post
    That was an awesome analysis, LegoLiz!
    Quote Originally Posted by Couplest View Post
    That was an awesome analysis, LegoLiz!
    Thank you Couplest! I appreciate that. As I’ve said before, I have been quite shy to post before, but I can’t help it now.

    What has really been boggling my mind after reading Rogue & Gambit #1 is why Rogue is so scared of their relationship. KT has admitted in Twitter and in interviews that Rogue is runner, but there is something else holding her back. It feels cliché although realistic, but I think it really has to do with her insecurities regarding her powers and her lack of control with them. In X-Treme, she told Remy she wanted a lifetime with him (I think X-Treme #18) and was willing to start facing her past (X-Treme X-Men Xpose #2) and she even reveals her real name (be it off-panel). They were happy in Valle Soleada. But we never really see her choosing to reactive her powers with Sage and any discussions she had with Gambit about how it would affect their relationship afterwards (wasn’t that all off panel?). The next time we see them, they are struggling with not being able to touch and going through Emma’s therapy sessions, Bizarre Long Triangle, Pulse and then Gambit going blind and becoming Death due to a pathetic infiltration scheme gone terribly wrong and he tries to kill her – so horrible breakup. Even though the way it was handled felt very out of character with Gambit, it’s fair that he would have a hard time with her uncontrollable powers and the loss of their intimacy after Valle Soleada. It would be painful also for Rogue who would be incredibly insecure about it.

    With that reasoning, I can understand now why she would be scared to commit to him after gaining control of her powers and keeping him at bay. Control can come and go so easily as she experienced so why up the ante with a relationship with someone you’re not sure will stick by you through it all. I truly believe that Gambit would stay with her (regardless of her power control issues) but I don’t think Rogue believes it. And she doesn’t want to deal with her fears. On this train of thought, I can ALMOST (like really small sliver of reasoning) understand why she chose Magneto (you don’t know how painful it is for me to say that). Because it was a way to run away from having to deal with her insecurities with Gambit. If she really wanted Magneto, I think she would have accepted his marriage proposal (shudder!), which she didn’t (THANK GOD!). Which is why I think she keeps using her powers as an excuse to keep her distance from Gambit now. When Remy tries to tell her it doesn’t matter to him in Rogue & Gambit #1, she runs away to talk to Kitty. When he challenges her about how her powers weren’t an issue for her kissing Deadpool, she evades the heart of the conversation by teasing him about his kissing abilities compared to man with no face - which she KNOWS would distract him from his initial line of questioning.

    Just my thinking at least!

  5. #2840
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    Beautiful juan678! Very sweet moment! And I love the clock in the background.

    I've been wondering about the beginning pages of Rogue & Gambit #1 as well. "If time is a circle, then everything happens at once." What does that mean? I'm sorry, I love words. And KT really seems like the type of writer who chooses each word carefully. I think there is much to unpack.

  6. #2841
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegoLiz View Post
    Hi Malachi,

    I see where you are coming from. Rogue is extremely guarded in this issue, even moreso than we've seen in the past. I mean, sure she punched Gambit in X-Men #4 after the basketball game when he asked her out, but she still went out with him afterwards and put a lot of effort in her date night look. So yes, you knew she cared. But this time, she isn't giving in at all and I think it's because she scared. She knows she can fall for Gambit and hard. She told Kitty their relationship was "in flux" not that it was completely over. She doesn't correct Gambit when he says their romantic life is "...on pause. Or something." by saying their romantic relationship is over. She is, as donpricetag said, running (you are so right donpricetag - she is a runner! Maybe not against scary world-ending scenarios or powerful villains, but when it comes to personal stuff. I LOVE Rogue, but come on, she didn't even reveal her name for ages. We still don't know her real last name. And we don't even have a backstory to why she kept it a secret!). Kissing Deadpool, kissing Bishop, lying on a bed next to Johnny Storm doesn't scare her because these men don't mean the same to her like Gambit does. She is scared of losing control and losing her heart with Remy because he means the most to her and that is why she is completely on edge with him. He startles her easily in hallways, she doesn't want him in the War Room session, she doesn't want to go to dinner with him, doesn't want to share a room with him, she is scared of having an open and honest therapy session with him. She is scared of confronting their relationship problems. My opinion is it that she still loves Remy and doesn't know how to make it work and it terrifies her because it hurts the most.

    But in regards for your hope that the following issues will take a different tone on their relationship, I think we can make a safe bet that they well. I think Kelly mentioned that issue 2 was her favourite (simply because issue 1 had to have a lot of set up content, hence the current 80/20 stance). And then Kelly mentioned that issue 3 was crazy sexy so I am predicting that is only possible if Rogue starts to let down her walls and begin reciprocating. And I would agree that a whole five-part mini series of 80/20 would get really boring and frustrating fast.
    When Rogue finally comes out with the reason why she is so scared to commit, part of me would like to see her break down emotionaly, just as an emotional release that she no longer has to carry this fear.

  7. #2842
    Mighty Member uebersoldat's Avatar
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    I have a very large large large hope for this miniseries and what I want to see in the last panel...I'm too afraid to talk about it because I feel like Marvel would just rip it out from under us..

  8. #2843
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    Quote Originally Posted by uebersoldat View Post
    I have a very large large large hope for this miniseries and what I want to see in the last panel...I'm too afraid to talk about it because I feel like Marvel would just rip it out from under us..
    I'm not so sure it's such a good idea to end the mini on a cliffhanger. Especially if this doesn't become an ongoing series.
    If this story is mainly about bringing out what is keeping the two of them apart and bringing them back together, when are the 2 of them going to have time to bring down the bad guy?

  9. #2844
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegoLiz View Post

    I've been wondering about the beginning pages of Rogue & Gambit #1 as well. "If time is a circle, then everything happens at once." What does that mean? I'm sorry, I love words. And KT really seems like the type of writer who chooses each word carefully. I think there is much to unpack.
    Time being a circle is one particular expression of the notion of Eternal Reccurence. In this formulation time literally goes around in a circle and everything is predestined to repeat forever. Because it is a circle then it could be seen from outside, sometimes referred to as a 'flat circle'. Imagine the central circular groove of an LP, sometimes artists would record onto that grove and once it is playing we get a sense of time but just looking at the groove there is no beginning or end and every point is equal. From that perspective there is no 'time' every oscillation in the groove is equally visible and although there is order it is laid out before us as a circle.

    So no point takes precedence, time does not exist as cause and effect in the way we perceive it within time. On this double page spread we see the representation of the Rogue Gambit relationship as fragmented and dislocated moments with no notion of which came first. It evokes the idea that comics are also an expression of Eternal Recurrence. Stories come back around and repeat. Not necessarily in exactly the same way but with resonance and self concious reflection. So this is perhaps a moment of realisation, where the narrator, presumably a character, is recognising the pattern. That is a transcendent realisation for a comic book character to have. Akin to a character recognising their destiny is being written.

    As this story is about a therapy, and some therapies involve states of consciousness, the line may be a hint that we will be exploring this idea more thoroughly later on.

  10. #2845
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeb View Post
    When Rogue finally comes out with the reason why she is so scared to commit, part of me would like to see her break down emotionaly, just as an emotional release that she no longer has to carry this fear.
    I like that idea. It's like taking a leap forward out of the rut that was looping so self destruçtively. I would like to see them both take an epifany from this as they are flawed and play so well off each others flaws. Almost allowing each others strengths to cover their vulnerability. It would be amazing growth for both of them.

  11. #2846
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegoLiz View Post
    Hi Malachi,

    I see where you are coming from. Rogue is extremely guarded in this issue, even moreso than we've seen in the past. I mean, sure she punched Gambit in X-Men #4 after the basketball game when he asked her out, but she still went out with him afterwards and put a lot of effort in her date night look. So yes, you knew she cared. But this time, she isn't giving in at all and I think it's because she scared. She knows she can fall for Gambit and hard. She told Kitty their relationship was "in flux" not that it was completely over. She doesn't correct Gambit when he says their romantic life is "...on pause. Or something." by saying their romantic relationship is over. She is, as donpricetag said, running (you are so right donpricetag - she is a runner! Maybe not against scary world-ending scenarios or powerful villains, but when it comes to personal stuff. I LOVE Rogue, but come on, she didn't even reveal her name for ages. We still don't know her real last name. And we don't even have a backstory to why she kept it a secret!). Kissing Deadpool, kissing Bishop, lying on a bed next to Johnny Storm doesn't scare her because these men don't mean the same to her like Gambit does. She is scared of losing control and losing her heart with Remy because he means the most to her and that is why she is completely on edge with him. He startles her easily in hallways, she doesn't want him in the War Room session, she doesn't want to go to dinner with him, doesn't want to share a room with him, she is scared of having an open and honest therapy session with him. She is scared of confronting their relationship problems. My opinion is it that she still loves Remy and doesn't know how to make it work and it terrifies her because it hurts the most.

    But in regards for your hope that the following issues will take a different tone on their relationship, I think we can make a safe bet that they well. I think Kelly mentioned that issue 2 was her favourite (simply because issue 1 had to have a lot of set up content, hence the current 80/20 stance). And then Kelly mentioned that issue 3 was crazy sexy so I am predicting that is only possible if Rogue starts to let down her walls and begin reciprocating. And I would agree that a whole five-part mini series of 80/20 would get really boring and frustrating fast.
    Thanks for the reply. It's not that often you get a reply and if you do it's 50/50 either someone who simply writes "agree" or starts debatting every point you made =)

    I think I wrote it in some other thread but if this mini had came out say 5 years ago I would probably be reading it much differently. As it is now I read everything against the backdrop of all the crap that has happened between them. Even more so the things that has not happened between them. The lack of communication that makes it hard to believe they are even friends. The last ten or so years has not been kind to Gambit and Rogue gets a lot of flack for that. Sometimes it's the things she does(Magneto) or sometimes it's what she doesn't do (Milligans horrid X-men run). The problem is that so much of Gambits stories has centered around Rogue that whatever way she responds is the only response that happens. If she leaves Gambit to his devices then her choice is the defacto choice the entire X-men do. So every time the X-men doesn't seem to care it seems it's Rogues decision. Witch is just lazy and bad writing/editorial work.

    Even if this is a logical starting point for the mini it's not the only choice. Many of the reasons why it's a logical way to start their story comes from things that has happened to Rogue, her Avengers and the astonishing X-men isssues particulary. Gambit was in another trajectory and point in life(his solo and X-factor) until he got dumped in limbo and was nowhere. With this story Rogue is more or less in the same spot she was before the mini, except that she seems more X-men involved then before. Gambit also for some reason seems to be with the X-men again and he has defaulted back to before or straight after his X-men legacy appearence.

    I would have loved more chasing from Rogue or at least another dynamic. If that would have meant another story and entry point then I don't mind. It's 1 issue in and I have no attachement to the island part of the plot yet. It's all about Romy for me, the plot is just a backdrop. Heck I can't say that I want Rogue to change just for this mini when I'm slightly bitter that Gambit did. So for me a mission where both of them are distant(witch is more or less what they where before the mini, Soule doesn't count!) from each other would have worked better for me and then events forces them to open up and talk.

  12. #2847
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeb View Post
    When Rogue finally comes out with the reason why she is so scared to commit, part of me would like to see her break down emotionaly, just as an emotional release that she no longer has to carry this fear.
    YES please for this!

  13. #2848
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Time being a circle is one particular expression of the notion of Eternal Reccurence. In this formulation time literally goes around in a circle and everything is predestined to repeat forever. Because it is a circle then it could be seen from outside, sometimes referred to as a 'flat circle'. Imagine the central circular groove of an LP, sometimes artists would record onto that grove and once it is playing we get a sense of time but just looking at the groove there is no beginning or end and every point is equal. From that perspective there is no 'time' every oscillation in the groove is equally visible and although there is order it is laid out before us as a circle.

    So no point takes precedence, time does not exist as cause and effect in the way we perceive it within time. On this double page spread we see the representation of the Rogue Gambit relationship as fragmented and dislocated moments with no notion of which came first. It evokes the idea that comics are also an expression of Eternal Recurrence. Stories come back around and repeat. Not necessarily in exactly the same way but with resonance and self concious reflection. So this is perhaps a moment of realisation, where the narrator, presumably a character, is recognising the pattern. That is a transcendent realisation for a comic book character to have. Akin to a character recognising their destiny is being written.

    As this story is about a therapy, and some therapies involve states of consciousness, the line may be a hint that we will be exploring this idea more thoroughly later on.
    I love this concept if it relates to Rogue & Gambit, especially the “time literally goes around in a circle and everything is predestined to repeat forever” and “…From that perspective there is no 'time' every oscillation in the groove is equally visible and although there is order it is laid out before us as a circle.”
    Wow – loved your theory on this relates to the title and comics in general. I have to keep re-reading your entry as there so many great tidbits in it. But the idea seems rather hopeless for the characters unless they can realize what is happening and break through the cycle.
    Now this gets me thinking about the cover for Rogue & Gambit #3 (https://1979semifinalist.tumblr.com/...op-draconian62). So cool (I LOVE IT!), and it’s in the shape of a heart and they are preparing to battle versions of themselves (so much to unpack here). But I remember reading somewhere that it’s symbolically a clock as well? I can’t see it, but I feel like I heard that it’s 3 o’clock? Maybe where their heads are positioned? If so, what does that mean? But then their legs are pointing elsewhere (maybe they represent the seconds hand)?

    I am reading way too much into this right?

  14. #2849
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegoLiz View Post
    I love this concept if it relates to Rogue & Gambit, especially the “time literally goes around in a circle and everything is predestined to repeat forever” and “…From that perspective there is no 'time' every oscillation in the groove is equally visible and although there is order it is laid out before us as a circle.”
    Wow – loved your theory on this relates to the title and comics in general. I have to keep re-reading your entry as there so many great tidbits in it. But the idea seems rather hopeless for the characters unless they can realize what is happening and break through the cycle.
    Now this gets me thinking about the cover for Rogue & Gambit #3 (https://1979semifinalist.tumblr.com/...op-draconian62). So cool (I LOVE IT!), and it’s in the shape of a heart and they are preparing to battle versions of themselves (so much to unpack here). But I remember reading somewhere that it’s symbolically a clock as well? I can’t see it, but I feel like I heard that it’s 3 o’clock? Maybe where their heads are positioned? If so, what does that mean? But then their legs are pointing elsewhere (maybe they represent the seconds hand)?

    I am reading way too much into this right?
    didn't catch the heart shape... but if it's a clock... its 7:40?

    You also have Gambit at the top and bottom and Rogue at the left and right... Gambit is surrounded by Rogue and Rogue by Gambit... Rogue and Gambit each have one firearm...

    No, that's reading way too much into it.
    Last edited by donpricetag; 01-09-2018 at 02:08 PM.
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  15. #2850
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeb View Post
    When Rogue finally comes out with the reason why she is so scared to commit, part of me would like to see her break down emotionaly, just as an emotional release that she no longer has to carry this fear.
    I think legitimately she had her concerns and now she's developed into someone with commitment issues. It's an interesting character flaw that would be good to explore. She's willing to commit to keeping powerful people part of her own persona (Carol/Simon) or take risks with strong personalities (like Deadpool), but with someone weaker in power or personality she isn't willing to make that commitment.

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