Comics Debate & Discourse: How To Be a Hero By Being An Ally

[the4thpip]

Anger doesn't need to be here, alright?

There is nothing wrong with anger.

Very few, if any, wrongs in society ever got changed without people getting angry first.

Wish The Man still let us post videos, but here is a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0BEPTWNPPg&pxtry=1

[Shawn Hopkins]

I'm not saying that, no, calm down, mon ami.

All I was saying is having, not to do with comics, a male only, or female only, space, is nice, long as there are unisex, you know, mixes otherwise.

And, are you aiming that at me, assuming I'm male, or targeting me, and calling me gate-keeping, and aggressive?

Tone down your language a bit, man, there's really no need to use a lot of it, even if there's a reason to get passionate.

Anger doesn't need to be here, alright?

I don't think I'm angry, but maybe a little exasperated that some superhero comics fans are still so backward, and that reactionaries that don't truly care about comics are jumping into the debate because it's the latest right wing cause du jour.

[cranger]

The writer of the column should do another one telling people how not to drive away allies because I think some people need a lesson in empathy.

[Matt A]

The writer of the column should do another one telling people how not to drive away allies because I think some people need a lesson in empathy.

If an ally can be driven away that easily, they weren't really an ally.

[Shawn Hopkins]

The writer of the column should do another one telling people how not to drive away allies because I think some people need a lesson in empathy.

A lot of people playing the empathy card (in this debate in general) seem to be asking that others emphasize with their fears that their longstanding privilege is being threatened. That's a tough ask.

[toysoldier]

If an ally can be driven away that easily, they weren't really an ally.

I think that attitude is part of the problem. An "ally" is not a punching bag. This is a person who supports you and your causes. It would be best not to treat them poorly.

I agree the author should have taken a different tone. The impression I got from the article is that it was directed at only one group. It is that group that must adapt, that must change, that must be conscious of other people's feelings. I do not know how one garners support and sympathy by making potential supporters feel bad about themselves.

[Michael P]

If someone asking you to consider other people's feelings makes you feel bad about yourself, you've got problems that go way beyond more ladies and black people in your funnybooks.

[liminal_lad]

I think that attitude is part of the problem. An "ally" is not a punching bag.

Sadly, I think that's exactly what a lot of people think "ally" means.

[Arundel Armor Hunter]

Perhaps not monopolized, but certainly led. For the same reason that conversations about science should be led by scientists.

Human nature is much more complex and easy at the same time. If you have a Samoan workforce that all speaks english, you can send over a Korean guy to get things done it works or a black guys from South Africa. There is no racial magic when it comes to common sense. A decent white president could take leadership on the issues of incarceration and drug laws that is unfortunately a very ''black'' issue.

Originally Posted by Arundel Armor Hunter View Post
You think all conversation about minorities should be monopolized by them?

Yes. I do.

So let groupthink and identity politics run wild?

Heh, even when the article outright says, "this isn't about you", this thread transforms into a "what about ME" discussion. With a bonus: minorities/allies have to bend over backwards to make people feel comfortable about supporting us.

So sick of it.

If you only single out one group that has to do improvement....

[the4thpip]

Sadly, I think that's exactly what a lot of people think "ally" means.

Seriously?
I think those people whose internalized privileged makes them feel victimized so quickly is never, ever gonna be much of an ally, and good riddance.

[Arundel Armor Hunter]

If someone asking you to consider other people's feelings makes you feel bad about yourself, you've got problems that go way beyond more ladies and black people in your funnybooks.

People can have feelings pop up from delusional places or feign being offended to reach objectives. Reason does not have to be turned of just because feelings are involved.

[Matt A]

I think that attitude is part of the problem. An "ally" is not a punching bag. This is a person who supports you and your causes. It would be best not to treat them poorly.

I agree the author should have taken a different tone. The impression I got from the article is that it was directed at only one group. It is that group that must adapt, that must change, that must be conscious of other people's feelings. I do not know how one garners support and sympathy by making potential supporters feel bad about themselves.

What you're talking about is an ally of convenience. That person is an ally because others will think better of them for it, not because they actually care. They attempt to dominate the discussion and are generally worthless when it's time for the real work.

An actual ally is less concerned with their feelings of comfort and much more interested in the people they're an ally of. It would never occur to an ally that they'll leave if the person they're an ally of doesn't preface every recognition of injustice with a caveat that #notallwhatever.

[cranger]

If someone asking you to consider other people's feelings makes you feel bad about yourself, you've got problems that go way beyond more ladies and black people in your funnybooks.

Not me. I've never been a fan of nothing but white guys in my books but whenever I say something that is what gets thrown back at me. All I ask is that when I am seeing your point of view you do the same. There is a very loud voice dominating this discussion that says my point of view is irrelevant and that trying to understand it won't benefit the discussion. Well, that is not a discussion is it?

[Crimson Knight]

There is nothing wrong with anger.

Very few, if any, wrongs in society ever got changed without people getting angry first.

Wish The Man still let us post videos, but here is a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0BEPTWNPPg&pxtry=1

Anger is mostly bad. Passion, and anger that drives that passion, a hope, a sympathy, a pain, yes.

But, not just anger, more positive emotions then that.

And, it shouldn't just be all around, and directed more at the right times, places, people.

Certainly not at me.

[Scarlet Frost]

It was great moment, but i doubt it prevents suicide or depression.

If the only way you see people like you is to be maids or bellhops or janitors or gardeners and you want to be more than that and society keeps telling you no, you start to wonder why you have the feelings you do. Why you want to be something other than what society wants to define you as? Try as you might to fit in and you just don't. You don't laugh enough or smile enough. They try to tell you that if you just could do what you do better than you can go further but then they move the goal posts on you for whatever reason they can come up with to keep you where you are. And then you wonder what you are trying to be. Why do you want to be like the ones who don't see you as a person? Then you wonder if you are on the inside just like those who keep trying to hold you down, someone that you have come to hate so you start hating yourself for wanting to be more than who you are. Then you wonder why you are here at all because you can't be satisfied with how other people want you to be.