Hey, people. I have been extremely busy since a long time ago and my computer has been bugging for unknown reasons. So I couldn't visit the forums until now, when I have a time for relax. After reading the whole adventure of "Spider-Verse", there are many things that I have to comment you, and even remark some complaints. It's going to take several posts, so I'm going to post the data one by one and wait until somebody answer to post the next one.
I'm going to start by talking about the spiders who have died in this adventure. Honestly, I don't care for many of the sacrified spiders in this story, but there are several of them who should have been resurrected somehow at the end, because I found them too important for the future and for the story of the whole Marvel Universe. Let me explain:
1º) Some of the Spiders killed were from realities that are going to have an important part in the future "Secret Wars" event. In fact, they form part of the patchwork battleworld as they have one of the territories from the map. Therefore, I believe their sacrifice was wrong and they should be restored somehow to have a role in the Secret Wars. These are those spiders:
+ Spider-Man 1602 (Peter Parquagh) from Earth-311, "Marvel 1602".
+ House of M Spider-Man (Peter Parker) from Earth-58163, "Hose of M".
+ Civil War Iron Spider (Peter Parker) from Earth-TRN443, a world still in the "Civil War".
+ Forever Yesterday Spider-Man (Peter Parker) from Earth-9105, "Forever Yesterday".
2º) The death of some other Spiders were wrong because either they were too cruel, too ridiculous (as impossible to be cannon) or too unthinkable to allow them. Let's see:
+ Six Armed Spider-Man (Peter Parker) from Earth-92100, a "What if?" issue. I loved the story of this Spider-Man as he became a symbol in his world for people to surpass their handicapped situations. So I believe the sacrifice of this Spider was both cruel and unthinkable.
+ MC2 Peter Parker. MC2 was the world that worried me the most, as a fan of Spider-Girl I couldn't accept the idea of Mayday Parker's world destroyed like that. In the end, it ended with "the worst of the acceptable scenarios". I'm very pissed because they made Mayday lose his father, but at least MJ and Wes survived. And besides, considering how this Peter acted so foolishly in some stories, I believe his sacrifice was unavoidable; so Mayday could finally step out of his dad's shadow.
+ "Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends". This was a really cruel hit to all us, the fans who grew up with this series as kids. Yes, I know these were simply an "alternative dimension" and not the real characters from the TV series; but still, it was really painful to see this.
+ Capcom Games Spider-Man (Peter Parker). The death of this Spider-Man has nonsense. I mean, think about the "Wreck-It Ralph" film. In their videogame worlds, if you die, you simply regenerates; as long as you don't die in a game that it's not your own. So, how it was even possible for Morlun to kill this Spider-Man? The game should have regenerated him after that, right?
+ Captain Spider (Flash Thompson). How it was even possible for this Spider to be here, when he died in his "What if?" story. This Spider should have survived, not to mention I would have loved to see Peter's reaction to see a Spider-version of Flash. If they resurrected him AFTER the accident that apparently killed him, they should have allowed him to stay.
+ Spider-Man (Ben Reilly). Are you kidding me? You bring back Ben Reilly to life (even if it's not exactly the Ben Reilly we knew) just to kill him again?!! Now that's stupid!! I don't know what it will happen after Secret Wars, but I'm pretty sure some characters will be resurrected when reality will be "repaired". And I want Ben Reilly be one of those resurrected.
+ Prince of Arachne (Peter Parker). Honestly, a Spider-Man from a world where he has a role similar to Cinderella sounds quite stupid. However, his sacrifice doesn't have sense here. He died here with his original knight's armour, but at the end of his original story, it changed it for a armour version of Spidey's black suit. So it doesn't have sense his death if it was removed from his time BEFORE that moment, don't you think?
+ Bullet Points Spider-Man (Robert Bruce Banner). Honestly, I never liked this world where Peter Parker and Bruce Banner switched their roles (Peter is Hulk and Bruce is Spider-Man). But being a Spider-Man different from Peter Parker, I believe it's quite interesting to keep it; so I found stupid to sacrifice him in this story.
+ Spider-Girl (Betty Brant). Another nonsense sacrifice. It doesn't have sense to have this Spider here in the first place, as Betty threw away his costume and rejected her powers at the end of her story. Not to mention that, just like Captain "Flash" Spider, it should have been quite interesting to see this Spider to interact with Peter Parker from Earth-616. So it was a mistake to kill her.
+ Hobgoblin (Peter Parker) from Earth-21205. Spider-Gwen just met this Peter and then they kill him. Another stupid sacrifice. I found this character quite interesting, as is a Peter trapped between the Spider and the Goblin's legacies. (Similar to "House of M" Peter). They should have allowed this Peter to survive.
+ Old Man Spider (Ezekiel Sims). Not much I care for this one, considering he tried to sacrify Peter to save his own skin; but since he came from a world where Peter did NOT survived against Morlun, I found interesting to see how this Ezekiel's penance develops and how he interacts with 616-Peter. They could have kept him and sent him to 616's universe or something.
+ Assassin Spider-Man (Peter Parker). To be honest, I don't like the idea of a killer version of Spider/Peter Parker, but somehow I found him too interesting to sacrifice him. Maybe I see some part of Kaine in him, which could be an interesting development.
+ Spider-Monkey (Peter Parker). Not entirely sure, but I believe the sacrifice of this animal version of Spidey was wrong. On the other hand, this Spider-Monkey is the original one, who mainly acts like a wild animal by his natural world; who killed his uncle Ben's murderer without hesitancy. However, there was ANOTHER Spider-Monkey who showed to have some more "humanity" than the first one. Maybe THIS Spider-Monkey is the one who deserves to survive over the first one.
+ Captain Spider-Verse (Peter Parker). I never liked a Spider-Man with so much power because it turned things too easy, but even with the Enigma Force, this Spider-Man was unable to save himself from Solus. That was really creepy. Considering the nature of the Enigma Force, I believe it should restore itself somehow and its host (Peter) with him. Besides, as "Captain Spider-Verse", it could work perfectly with Spider-UK and Spider-Girl as the "Warriors of the Web". Anyway, it was wrong to sacrifice this Spider.
Well, this is my first part. What do you think?
Results 1 to 15 of 20
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03-20-2015, 09:14 PM #1Astonishing Member
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Interesting facts of Spider-Verse
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03-21-2015, 02:04 AM #2All-New Member
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Originally Posted by Ursalink
interesting theories! i actually half expected all the dead spidies to be brought back to life by the end of the run due to the inheritors being killed and the life force the've sucked from spiders would magically return to their host bodies. but that didn't happen. so 10,000 cool points to marvel.
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03-21-2015, 11:25 AM #3iMan 42s
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I thought killing off Ben was a mistake. He can solve a lot of problems for the book when Peter goes off to do spider business and yet he has to die again. Better death this time but come on Marvel...
There are alternate Earths of what if stories though. I'm pretty sure a few House of M exist with only a few minor alterations so it doesn't mean they are resurrected. The game spiderman unlimited even has a House of M spiderman and Green Goblin and the differences between those worlds is in one of them when Peter became the Goblin he stayed that way.-----------------------------------
For anyone that needs to know why OMD is awful please search the internet for Linkara' s video's specifically his One more day review or his One more day Analysis.
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03-21-2015, 11:30 AM #4BANNED
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I keep hearing the Spider-Man Unlimited runner had a better storyline for this than the comics. From the gameplay I've seen, it also had a more boundless, optimistic and on-point Mayday, perhaps she came from one of those universes the comic Mayday alluded to where the Inheritor tragedy did'nt befall her family?
And as for Reily...there was no body seen after that place went boom, so I'm just assuming the classic comic book death rule regarding that. I have a feeling Costa is saving him for a return appearance in his Spider-Verse ongoing during Secret Wars.
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03-21-2015, 01:02 PM #5Astonishing Member
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OK, since I had already an answer to the first post, I'm going to post my next comment.
From the beginning, they said we would see "every Spider-Character ever" in the story, but that has been not truth. OK, I admit there has been too many Spiders to make them appear all together; but even so, there has been a lot Spiders who has been ignored and they could have been a good role in this whole mess. Allow me to show you who were these Spiders:
1º) Some Spiders are from a reality presented in the story, but they were not used:
+ Ultimate Peter Parker from Earth-1610: I don't know if this story happens after or before discovering that Peter Parker was alive (as I suspected), but since it was revealed to be alive, the Inheritors should have tracked him. Even although we don't know where he and MJ are right now, I guess the Inheritors should have detected his presence or something. It has been dumb to ignore this Spider-Man here.
+ Scorpion (Peter Parker's clone): We never knew what the heck happened to this clone of Peter Parker, but if he's still alive somehow, it should have been tracked by the Inheritors too.
+ Earth-616: Julia Carpenter, the new Madame Webb, has finally awaken from her coma; but even so, I think she should have appeared more in this story. After all, besides Cassandra Webb's powers, she still had her original Spider-Woman's powers. So the Inheritors should have tracked her. And I understand why the symbiotes (mainly Venom) didn't appear as preys to the Inheritors, but even so, I believe they should have used Agent Venom (Flash Thompson) a little in this story. Can you imagine Flash's reaction if he had discovered a Spider-Version of himself (Captain Spider)? And with the Superior Spider-Man in it, he could understand what happened the last time.
+ MC2 (Earth-982): It was a stupidity to say only Peter, Mayday and Benjy were the Spider-Totems of this reality. There are many more "totems" in this reality who should have appeared, not to mention that some of them could have been alerted by the Inheritors' attacks. Those Spiders are Darkdevil (son of Ben Reilly), Gerry Drew (son of Jessica Drew), Araña, Kaine, Mayhem (Mayday's clone who might me still alive) and the Black Tarantula.
+ Mangaverse (Earth-2301): Mary Jane Watson (Spider-Woman) was present when his Peter when to the quest of the other Spiders' call. If she has the same powers of Jessica Drew, she should have accompained him. Besides, I really wanted to see a Spider-MJ in this story.
+ Spider-Jameson (John Jameson): From a "What if?" issue, the same of Captain Spider (Flash Thompson) and Spider-Girl (Betty Brant). He made a cameo in an issue, although his presence wouldn't have sense just like the other two, because at the end of his story, he died.
+ Three different versions of Peter Parker as Spider-Man appeared at the end of the "What If?" stories of Captain Spider, Spider-Girl and Spider-Jameson. I guess they should have been counted too, although since there's no physical difference from the main one, I guess they wouldn't have been interesting for anyone. Even so, in my opinion, they should have counted.
+ The Spider-Man (Aaron Aikman): His story ended with him facing Morlun, but that doesn't necessarily means he died. I mean, we don't know much about this character, so maybe he used some tecnological trick to escape or something. I think they should have given a chance.
2º) Other Spiders are previous versions of known Spiders, possibly not from the mainstream reality, but they could still be used as characters from alternative realities:
+ Cassandra Webb as Madame Webb.
+ Julia Capenter as Arachne (or maybe better as Spider-Woman).
+ Mac Gargan as Dark Spider-Man/Venom. (This one could have been killed by the Inheritors).
+ Spidercide, one of Spider-Man clones.
+ Mattie Franklin as Spider-Woman. (I never liked how they killed this character, not to mention is stupid how Jameson apparently never noticed that his nieve had been murdered).
+ Doppelganger, evil magical monster-duplicate of Spider-Man.
+ Anya Corazon as Araña. (I really miss her exo-skeleton).
3º) Other Spiders are characters who made cameos and then, they disappeared without explanation. Let's see:
+ Anansi, the Spider-God from Earth-7082, one of the "Marvel airy Tales". Being a God and a trickster, possibly at the level of Loki, I can't believe why they didn't use him. We saw him in cameos and how he was recruited, so he should have had an important role in all this. He could have tricked the Inheritors in several circunstances, like to save some Spiders. This was a greatly waste of Spider-Character.
+ Spider-Man 2211 (Max Borne) from Earth-9500. This character was apparently killed by his version of the Chamaleon; then again, time travellers always manage to survive any event and return again (just like Kang the Conqueror). His presence could explain the appearances of some Spiders who were supposed to be dead (like Captain Spider), and with his time-traveling tech and ability to see alternative realities, he should have been one of the main platers in this story.
+ Spider-Man Noir (Peter Parker) from Earth-90214. I know he was injured while he was with Spider-Woman and Silk and carried back to his home dimension. And we know he's still alive since he's going to appear in the "Spider-Verse" of "Secret Wars". But even so, he should have reappeared to take part in the final battle.
I think this post is already long enough, so I'll post the rest later.
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03-21-2015, 07:53 PM #6iMan 42s
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An alternate spiderman noir appears in the background of one of the Amazing Spider-man issues however I don't know if he is in the final battle in Amazing or spiderverse books.
-spidercide is unstable as a clone so I'm not sure how much he counts but if Doppelganger does then....
-Peter was in a lab. Might have shielded him from detection. Otherwise Verna May have been too angry at Miles and team superior that she left after them and just ignored Peter.
-Scorpion is still up in the air but his powers might be derived from the suit so he might not count.
-Mac Garagan as Dark spider-man used the venom symbiote and unless it's specifically arachnids which scorpions are then Mac should be left out.
- Aikman is still up in the air. I remember reading an interview with his writer that they would love to follow up on Aaron so his death is certainly questionable.
- 982 having only May and Ben left is lame. I have said numerous times that May should have been focused on a bit more to ease readers into spiderverse. With as many spiders as that world has, how is it that none of them even get a token mention?
Now they could be very much alive but if they are dead. SHOW DON'T TELL.
But I do have something to ask. Now this is a fairly large plot hole as well on both sides inheritors and spider. How could they not detect certain spiders while in a reality when they can travel the multiverse and detect what and how many spiders are where outside of them. Verna didn't go after Ultimate Peter, Julia was a sitting duck, they couldn't notice all of Ock's team in 2099?
Another fairly large plot hole is why didn't Jennix just zero in on developing teams? They never would know of what is happening or communicate back and forth due to Jennix being able t interfere and he has had this technology for how long?
When Solus states he knew of the location of the Other and The bride doesn't that mean he could've done the ritual at any point? Sure the scion would've been a hard get if the multiverse wasn't dying but point still stands that the only thing that could kill him would be gone and less spiders would exist due to the death of silk.
Just how is the weaver's past and future together? Why didn't the weaver just kill his family? His personal timeline would remain intact and Otto couldn't kill him and throw everything out of whack. The weaver would also need to time travel at some point or create a younger version of his family but if so why? To escape an incursion? Because that shouldn't work considering Battle world.-----------------------------------
For anyone that needs to know why OMD is awful please search the internet for Linkara' s video's specifically his One more day review or his One more day Analysis.
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03-22-2015, 06:03 PM #7Astonishing Member
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OK, let's continue with my list. First, there's a few more of Spiders who only mades cameos but they could have been useful/interesting at some point:
+ Spider-Ma'am (May Parker): A spider version of Aunt May. OK, I admit that Lady Spider is technically a Spider-Version of Aunt May too; but she's a young May instead of a Aunt May. She was saved from Karn thanks to other five Spiders, and then, she was left alone with her Ben and her Peter. I understand she was scared by the whole thing and stuff, but I believe she should have joined the group to help them against the Inheritors. I mean, if we had a Spider-Uncle Ben, by not to make him team-up with a Spider-Aunt May? You can't deny that would have been very interesting.
+ Spider-Girl (Penelope Parker): A kid in the Elementary School who became a kid Spider-Girl. I have to admit, it was quite dumb, but since they decided to show us such reality, I believe they should have gone deeper in this universe and make it have bigger role in all this.
Now, let's talk about the last "category"; Spiders who weren't even presented in the story but they could have had a very important role in the story. This category actually has two groups:
1º) Some Spiders who could have been "sacrified" as victims of Morlun ar his family. Most of them are evil, so I wouldn't cry over their loss:
+ The Spider (Peter Parker) from Earth-15: A Spider-Man who fused himself with the Carnage symbiote and became a serial killer, mixing features from Deadpool and Carnage. They could sacrifice this Spider, not to mention that, even if he dies, he could possibly have killed some bodies of Morlun's family.
+ The Spider-Man from "Marvel Zombies": This Spider is not really alive, so I don't think he could sustain the Inheritors like the other ones. (On the other hand, they ate a Spider-Vampire). Even so, it would be interesting to see if the Inheritors could face the horror of Marvel Zombies; and I'm quite sure this Peter would gladly see this as a chance of redemption trying to stop the Inheritors.
+ Spider-Man (Peter Parker) from Earth-5113 (Dormammuverse). This won't be an easy hunt for the Inheritors, as they surely would have to face Dormammu's forces just to get one tiny spider. And since Dormammu get really pissed when someone attack his lackeys, he could make the Inheritors suffer very much by their boldness.
+ Pestilence (Peter Parker) from "Age of Apocalypse": Same as Dormammu, I don't think Apocalypse will be happy to see someone attacking one of his Horsemen; so it would be interesting to see them facing Apocalypse's soldiers a see who are stronger. Not to mention Apocalypse had "spider-clones" as soldiers.
+ Arachnus (Peter Parker) from Earth-9907: A reality that is a dark reflection of MC2, Spider-Girl traveled to this reality once a fought against her father's evil counterpart. Honestly, they could have sacrified this guy over Mayday's dad.
+ Spider-Man Deathlok: From a reality where all superheroes and villains have been turned into Deathloks and programmed to destroy any other "superhuman". I find this guy quite similar to the Spider-Man Cyborg, but it would be interesting seeing the Deathloks against several Deathloks.
+ Cannibal Spider-Man from "Punisher vs Marvel Universe": Also know as "Patient Zero", I would like to see the Inheritors facing such world similar to Marvel Zombies.
+ Poison (Peter Parker): A "What If?" where Peter rejected the Other and merged himself with Venom, creating an entirely new creature. They could have kill this one because is really disgusting. And I wonder if he would be an easy prey for the Inheritors.
2º) Finally, these are the Spiders who should have appeared in the story and have some kind of role through the whole arc. Let's see:
+ Venom (May Parker) from Earth-9997 (Earth-X): Last time we saw her, she was forced to serve Kang and his Chrono Corps; after that, we don't know what happened to her. If she's still obligated to serve Kang, we could have seen the Inheritors trying to hunt her; which could possibly let them to face Kang and the other Chrono Corps. Since Kang always returns, I would have loved to see the Inheritors smash him and his Corps; then May could join the other Spiders and return to her home dimension at the end.
+ Black Spider (Natalia Romanova) from Earth-TRN425: An alternative version of the Black Widow who actually has her and Spider-Man's powers. She could have worked in the "espionage stage" along with Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew), don't you think? They had to use this Spider!!!
+ Tsarfin and her 123 childrens (Earth-1078): I don't know if this dimension is serious or not, but this girl was created as an experiment to combine Spider-Man's and Black Widow's powers, resulting in her having as much children as a real spider. It would have been interesting to see this reality, surely, Morlun and his family could devour many of the children, but Tsarfin would survive with a few of them. Maybe it sounds cruel, but the story of this reality sounds really stupid.
+ Spider-Man (plain Peter Parker) from Earth-958: From the world where Peter Parker had to destroy Spider-Man (an evil Flash Thompson). Imagine if Peter sees Morlun devouring Flash and ignore Peter just because he's not a real totem. Interesting, huh?
+ Ghost Spider (Peter Parker) from Earth-11638: Honestly, how could they not use this Spider? He has his own record as kidnapper of alternative Spiders and draining their powers and life. So how couldn't they use him for this adventure? I'm quite sure he could find redemption here, not to mention a possible way to restored the killed Spiders and, if he has the same powers of the Ghost Rider, use a "penance stare" to torture the Inheritors by their crimes. It has been stupid to ignore this Spider for this story!!
+ Nova (Peter Parker) from Earth-51977: The radiation in the spider byte was too much and instead of giving Peter powers, it left him crippled. Then, he was cured when he became Nova, but rejected his powers because of Aunt May's death. It would have been interesting to use this character here. Even although he's a Nova, he could still have the essence of the Spider in him and the radiation. So, maybe his essence could work as a deadly poison for the Inheritors. Don't you think?
+ Spider-Man (Peter Parker) from Earth-89721: A world where the Avengers lost the Evolutionary War and all the inhabitants of Earth evolved into their "ultimate form". In Spider-Man's case, he get not 6 but 8 ARMS!! His powers also made him somekind of "demi-god". So it would be interesting if Morlun and his family could face this Spider and the other evolved beings of this planet.
+ Spider-Woman (Mary Jane Watson) from Earth-92124: Finally, this is the Spider I wanted to see but they didn't dare to use. Not that I wanted someone eclipsing Spider-Gwen, but I really wanted to see a Spider-Version of Mary Jane in this story; especially considering what happened back in the Spid-Island's arc. Man, I'm so mad they didn't use a Spider like this!!!
Well, this is it for now. I have more points to comment, but I will wait to answers.
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03-23-2015, 10:48 PM #8OUTRAGEOUS!!
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What about Spider-Phoenix?
"Never assign to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity or ignorance."
"Great stories will always return to their original forms"
"Nobody is more dangerous than he who imagines himself pure in heart; for his purity, by definition, is unassailable." James Baldwin
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03-24-2015, 03:17 PM #9Formerly Assassin Spider
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Would be awesome, but that was just high-tech trickery by Arcade that made Spider-Man think he'd been possessed by/merged with the Phoenix Force. Still an awesome idea, though --- and perhaps he wouldn't have gone nuts like the Phoenix Five did. Originally Posted by Thor-Ul
What about Spider-Phoenix?
The spider is always on the hunt.
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03-25-2015, 10:10 AM #10Astonishing Member
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With the Marvel universe "rebooting" (?), couldn't some of the deaths be erased?
Of course, some of these casualities might never exist (or even the Inheritors) but, technically, they would not be deceased.
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03-25-2015, 10:52 AM #11Loony
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Seems like its all going to be fair game after the next event. Except for Gwen Stacy, Captain Stacy and Uncle Ben, of course. Ben Reilly, sadly. And probably Adam Warlock. Thunderbird. And several others who are minor characters.
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03-25-2015, 10:54 AM #12Mighty Member
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This is the most "comic book forum" comic book forum post in history.
I write about the intersection of science, comics and culture. Check it out!
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03-25-2015, 03:14 PM #13BANNED
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At this point we can`t claim the Ben Reilly of Spider Verse is dead because it`s not confirmed. Everyone knows my feelings of the ending of the Clone Saga and while it would be all too easy to claim Marvel is taking the dig further, they have done what they can to leave the door open, either way. Regarding Ben from "Verse", it was stressed out more than anything, compared to all the other spiders, that "Ben Reilly" got a higher willpower to draw from. The last issue of the mini shows how throught his run as Spiderman in his world, he has suceeded and come out on top all the time. It`s a character whose main mantra is that you don`t stay down and that you got Heart to Rocky your way out of situations even when your life is on the line for others.
His "death" ends in two positive notes: his last words in the mini and the no body evidence.
He`s out there and chances are that Costa will end up using him in the new Spider-Verse Team title. Bringing Kane along only cements it for me.
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03-25-2015, 03:44 PM #14Astonishing Member
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Let's be glad that Slott forgot to kill him on his to so list. Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider
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03-25-2015, 04:07 PM #15Astonishing Member
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Uncle Ben's death in the mainstream could stay the same, but I believe the deaths of Gwen Stacy and Captain George Stacy could be undone, as the reality of Spider-Gwen could merge with this one. How to explain it?, easy:
+ Miles Warren, the Jackal became obsessed with Gwen Stacy a little sooner. He kidnapped George Stacy as an ace to use against Gwen in case she rejected him; and he replaced him with a clone. The clone then died when we though George Stacy died.
+ Becoming more insane at each moment, the Jackal then kidnapped Gwen Stacy and replaced her with a clone too. Then the death of Gwen Stacy was actually of her clone.
+ After the death of the clone, the Jackal realized that Gwen's life could have ended in the struggle between Spider-Man and the Green Goblin. So, he decided to give Gwen the power to protect herself by injecting her a serum which gave her the same powers of Spider-Man. (Similar to what one of the clones in the Ultimate Universe did to Mary Jane).
+ Eventually, Gwen managed to escape from the Jackal along with her dad.
I believe Ben Reilly's life could be restored too, somehow. I have mor comments to do, but right now I'm in the middle of something. I'll post them later.
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