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  1. #31
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    I don't read All New Captain America, but that has nothing to do with the race of the character. It has to do with the fact that Sam's been written as an unlikable ass, and the story itself isn't very coherent. I just don't enjoy it.

    "So while I am not compelled to continue buying "All-New Captain America" based on the strength of the story, I am compelled to remain a regular purchaser because of all of this."

    This is literally the most wrong reason to support a title, mister Illidge. How are they supposed to know they're doing something wrong with the story if you keep purchasing it and, to the important folks at Marvel, are 'enjoying it?' It's simple. They won't, because you decided to purchase it anyway.

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member Double 0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by icantstandthisindecision View Post
    This is literally the most wrong reason to support a title, mister Illidge. How are they supposed to know they're doing something wrong with the story if you keep purchasing it and, to the important folks at Marvel, are 'enjoying it?' It's simple. They won't, because you decided to purchase it anyway.
    "Don't like it, don't buy it" works differently for characters that aren't A-list, or some of the luckier B-lists like Daredevil.

    Instead of saying, "hey maybe it's the creative team?", it's usually, "this character does not work, lets move on". Double when it's a minority character.

    So I see why Illidge is willing to continue buying.


    As for the comparison? Easy: Aaron's Thor is a better comic. It does what it sets out to do way better than Remender's Cap run. Axis also did some damage to the Captain Falcon idea.
    "Race is a social construct, they say. And I remind them that money is a social construct, too. Social constructs have power." — DeRay Mckesson

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FN Spider-Man View Post
    The problem is that Remender's Captain America run has been bad and Jason Aaron's run on Thor has been good.
    pretty much this.

  4. #34
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    That's, admittedly, true. I just don't get the idea - in general - behind buying a title just because it features a certain character, even as a lead. I also don't understand why executives seem to think one thing as opposed to just... looking into it. I guess it's because it's corporate and they don't believe they have the time for it.

  5. #35
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    A general sense of (dis)satisfaction across the fan base is easier and more cost effective to obtain than trying to understand individual opinions.

  6. #36
    Mighty Member tg1982's Avatar
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    I think some of the factors concerning FalCap are...

    One, what I call "legacy fatigue" Steve had just regained the shield only a few years ago, only to loose it again. There wasn't, IMO, a long enough time to really feel any impact towards Steve loosing the mantle again. Unlike Thor.

    Two, while I don't currently read Thor, from what I hear he is still active in the book, so even though Thor doesn't wield Mjolnir currently, fans of his can still pick up the book to read about him as well as the other Thor. So while the new Thor is unknown, we still have the classic Thor which fans can still read about. In Captain America it's basically just Sam...and a unknown newcomer in Ian. Captain America doesn't have the same luxury of having a bonafide proven character with a long standing fanbase to help support sales.

    Just my thoughts.
    I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man.
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  7. #37
    Extraordinary Member Badou's Avatar
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    The author of the article forgot to include that Marvel put Sam Wilson as the leader of the Uncanny Avengers book to give the character even more exposure, and that was a book that was the centerpiece of Marvel's latest event. So the All New Captain America and Sam Wilson has gotten some more exposure than what was listed in the article. The problem is that Axis wasn't a very good event and it didn't sell that well, so that might have factored in as well.

    However, the problem is that even before the new Thor and All New Captain America books Thor was outselling the regular Captain American title. It was basically selling around 10K more than it so you already had more built in fans interested in the book to begin with and it received a lot more critical praise. Then there is the fact that Thor probably made a better transition than All New Captain America. As the real Thor is still active and doing things in the book instead of how they wrote out the real Captain America from his title in sort of an awkward way so they could have Sam take over. Though at least it wasn't as bad as a Wally West situation where the whole thing felt incredibly forced, but I just don't think a ton of people were interested in Sam as Captain America. Maybe the fact that we had Bucky take over for Cap a few years earlier in another highly promoted story took away some of the mystique of a new Captain America as well.

  8. #38
    Self-Loathing Bendis Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by FN Spider-Man View Post
    The problem is that Remender's Captain America run has been bad and Jason Aaron's run on Thor has been good.
    That doesn't make for very compelling articles, or the ad impressions they generate, though.

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member protege's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panfoot View Post
    "That said, the story reads like Sam Wilson continues to fail, time and time again"

    That's what really put me off after picking up the first 2 issues.
    What turned me off was a new hero against the same old villains. "blah blah blah HYDRA." Cap needs a NEW rogue's gallery.

  10. #40
    Fantastic Member Kaled's Avatar
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    Personally I felt Remender does not get Captain America as a solo book. I think he did a better job of writing him in Uncanny Avengers than in his own book. I think Falcon could support his own book rather than being a replacement. Christopher Priest did a Captain America/Falcon book as a follow up to his Black Panther book several years ago. Even though both characters were in it after the first story line it became more of a solo Falcon book. It did not last long but that was because Cap was being moved to Marvel Knights at the time. I did not get to read the story because marvel comics were taken off the newsstand for a year but does anyone know if Remender addressed the fact that during Mark Gruenwald's run he established that the super solider serum could not be remove from Cap's body because it had because part of his dna?

  11. #41
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    The author of the article forgot to include that Marvel put Sam Wilson as the leader of the Uncanny Avengers book to give the character even more exposure, and that was a book that was the centerpiece of Marvel's latest event. So the All New Captain America and Sam Wilson has gotten some more exposure than what was listed in the article. The problem is that Axis wasn't a very good event and it didn't sell that well, so that might have factored in as well.

    However, the problem is that even before the new Thor and All New Captain America books Thor was outselling the regular Captain American title. It was basically selling around 10K more than it so you already had more built in fans interested in the book to begin with and it received a lot more critical praise. Then there is the fact that Thor probably made a better transition than All New Captain America. As the real Thor is still active and doing things in the book instead of how they wrote out the real Captain America from his title in sort of an awkward way so they could have Sam take over. Though at least it wasn't as bad as a Wally West situation where the whole thing felt incredibly forced, but I just don't think a ton of people were interested in Sam as Captain America. Maybe the fact that we had Bucky take over for Cap a few years earlier in another highly promoted story took away some of the mystique of a new Captain America as well.
    Excellent points.

    This article forgot to include quite a bit and is stretching for it's thesis. Everything he mentioned favored female Thor, wasn't in place when they first came out. I'd argue that the new Captain America book actually started out better footing, since it was announced on a nerd friendly show (Colbert), while the new Thor was announced on your grandma's show (the View). Likewise, new Cap got the Uncanny Avengers push, plus, Captain America and the Mighty Avengers. New Thor didn't get the lead in any other titles. Also, Stuart Immonen is a big name Marvel artist, while Russell Dauterman ... well, unless you were reading Cyclops, you probably didn't know who he was.


    Which is a shame, cause he's right about this, it's a real problem:

    Taking all of this into consideration, Sam Wilson, like many Black superheroes and Black people in real life, has the odds stacked against him for success.
    But the article doesn't show that, with its comparison to the new female Thor book.

    I also don't care for the implication in the article title that female Thor is doing well because of her "allure," like her success is due to sex appeal, and wasn't a hard earned struggle. While the male Captain America is valiantly struggling.
    Last edited by Reviresco; 03-24-2015 at 12:44 AM.
    Namor the Sub-Mariner, Marvel's oldest character, will have been published for 85 years in 2024. So where's my GOOD Namor anniversary ongoing, Marvel?

  12. #42
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solletaire View Post
    It's not that people are that much more interested in reading about a female superhero as opposed to a black superhero. The difference is in the story itself. The new Thor is a fun and imaginative story. All New Captain America is a weird bordering on goofy story with questionable pacing. People don' just read a comic book because it has a female or African American lead. They do want to read good comics.

    Spoilers follow!!!

    1

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    spoilers:


    Cap Falc come across a faction of HYDRA who have an inhuman captive. The inhuman's blood has the property to sterilize humans. So HYDRA is dispensing his blood across the US by using a swarm of fleas. Thankfully, Sam manages to convince all the birds in the region to eat the fleas. But, wait, there is a back up plan. The vampiric Baron Blood has been binge drinking the "magic blood" and is now on a rampage to bite as many people as possible... sterilizing the ones he doesn't convert to vampires, I guess.

    As I've said in a different post it's like going to the new James Bond movie expecting to see Skyfall and instead you are shown Moonraker...
    end of spoilers
    Is this REALLY the plot of the new Captain America book??? Good Lord. I'm surprised it's selling as well as it is.
    Namor the Sub-Mariner, Marvel's oldest character, will have been published for 85 years in 2024. So where's my GOOD Namor anniversary ongoing, Marvel?

  13. #43
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    Yeah, these two people said what I came here to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by solletaire View Post
    It's not that people are that much more interested in reading about a female superhero as opposed to a black superhero. The difference is in the story itself. The new Thor is a fun and imaginative story. All New Captain America is a weird bordering on goofy story with questionable pacing. People don' just read a comic book because it has a female or African American lead. They do want to read good comics.

    [spoiler]Cap Falc come across a faction of HYDRA who have an inhuman captive. The inhuman's blood has the property to sterilize humans. So HYDRA is dispensing his blood across the US by using a swarm of fleas. Thankfully, Sam manages to convince all the birds in the region to eat the fleas. But, wait, there is a back up plan. The vampiric Baron Blood has been binge drinking the "magic blood" and is now on a rampage to bite as many people as possible... sterilizing the ones he doesn't convert to vampires, I guess.[/spoiler]

    As I've said in a different post it's like going to the new James Bond movie expecting to see Skyfall and instead you are shown Moonraker...
    Quote Originally Posted by FN Spider-Man View Post
    The problem is that Remender's Captain America run has been bad and Jason Aaron's run on Thor has been good.
    I did get All-New Cap #1, in fact with a pretty high level of excitement. Then I started reading and I'm like “WTF is this? UH? WHAT?” It simply isn't interesting — or, in fact, makes sense. But then Cap isn't the easiest title to write, looking back I can't remember many storylines I actually enjoyed, no matter who is wearing the banner costume.

    In fact, the article has this:
    It's a solid adventure story, to be sure, with overall solid writing
    No. No, it isn't. If there's anything solid there, it's a solid heap of meh. The characters are uninteresting, the stuff that happens feels utterly unimportant, the reasons people on all sides are doing stuff don't resonate, it's a bore in every way. I understand you might be hesitant to badmouth the creators, but really, say it like it is or don't bother posting it on the web.
    Last edited by lalomartins; 03-24-2015 at 12:45 AM.

  14. #44
    Mighty Member tg1982's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaled View Post
    but does anyone know if Remender addressed the fact that during Mark Gruenwald's run he established that the super solider serum could not be remove from Cap's body because it had because part of his dna?
    Nope, to my knowledge Remender hasn't mentioned it at all. Nor the fact that when Steve has lost the super soldier serum before he just got skinny and sickly and never turned into an old man. Most likely it never will get brought up. And if it does it'll just be explained away by something that the Iron Nail was able to do because..."my story". Come to think of it...I've read Winter Soldier: The Bitter March, and the Iron Nail arc...and I don't remember any explanation on what the Iron Nail could do or even how he got his power...I just remember he got shived by a dragon, so...magic? Anywho...in all fairness, that is, to me, the one thing I didn't like about Remender's run so far...it's possible that when it's time for Steve to come back to being Cap, they'll use the fact that he can replenish the SSS as a way to bring him back. It was never stated that he couldn't or wouldn't replenish it, just that he didn't have it in his system, which isn't really new for Steve, to be honest.
    I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man.
    - George Washington

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveAtThee View Post
    Comparing the current volume of Thor sales to the God of Thunder run isn't exactly a fair comparison. The latter was simply a relaunch with a new creative team while the former received a pretty significant mainstream media advertising push. It also helped that Aaron's run on God of Thunder was both a critical and commercial (relatively in today's market) success, so the current relaunch remained under his pen.
    Quoted for truth.

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