The Mission: The Allure of Marvel's Female Thor & the All-New Captain America's Struggle

[Username taken]

"Don't like it, don't buy it" works differently for characters that aren't A-list, or some of the luckier B-lists like Daredevil.

Instead of saying, "hey maybe it's the creative team?", it's usually, "this character does not work, lets move on". Double when it's a minority character.

So I see why Illidge is willing to continue buying.


As for the comparison? Easy: Aaron's Thor is a better comic. It does what it sets out to do way better than Remender's Cap run. Axis also did some damage to the Captain Falcon idea.

This is also true.

The new Thor book has been good but Remender hasn't shown Falcon to be an adequate Captain America at all.

[HUTHAIFA]

The series All New Captain America: Fear Him was basically about Ian as well. RR seems to be wanting to firmly establish Ian and possibly Jet to the Captain America franchise for reasons I would largely imagine have to do with Steve Rogers popularity. So it really seems Sam is getting screwed out of his big moment currently.


As to female Thor....I think some more time is needed to determine if it has long term stability. Remember how the New 52 started out? People bought the first arch of several books to see how things were going to turn out but then we began to see bug drops after the six to seventh issues of several series. Hopefully, the book will still do well and real Thor will still have major relevance to the MU as well. Even though I never been that interested in that franchise/property.

Sam is in more books now than ever before. I find Lady Thunder to be pretty bland so far. It could be the the greatness of the previous volumes with Ribic has spoiled me.While on the other hand . Immoneon work is just awe inspiring.

[tg1982]

This is also true.

The new Thor book has been good but Remender hasn't shown Falcon to be an adequate Captain America at all.

So far I'd have to agree with you.

I mean, I understand having him struggle a bit as Captain America, I mean, if it was too easy and he could be like Steve right from the get go, then it would be like anyone could wield the shield. But it's kind of getting to be a bit depressing.

[Kieran_Frost]

I find the comparison demeaning to both, quite honestly. And as mentioned above, "Thor" has been milking a big mystery. "The New Captain America" doesn't have that. I think it's a bit of a reach to say that the "black guy" has the deck stacked against him again, but we all see what we want to see. (and of the two titles, I've been buying "Captain America" instead of "Thor.")

No all minority leads have things stacked against them; which is shown by the hate they get BEFORE the comic even débuts (think Ms. Marvel). And (in America) for straight, black male characters this is doubly true. It's sad to realise that (even in the industry) there are those who want to see FalconCap fail. On-line it's even worse. BUT (silver lining) things are improving slowly. Mighty Avengers did not get the internet crashing hate it would have gotten 7 years ago. That's progress. Slow, but progress.

That's, admittedly, true. I just don't get the idea - in general - behind buying a title just because it features a certain character, even as a lead. I also don't understand why executives seem to think one thing as opposed to just... looking into it. I guess it's because it's corporate and they don't believe they have the time for it.

Assuming you're a straight, white, male the reason many SWM don't "get" why "a certain character" is bought is because they have a plethora of characters to choose from. If they don't like a certain run, they just move to the next one or the one after that or the one after that; straight white men galore. If you're a minority, you really have few to choose from more often than not. If your LGBT and want to read an LGBT solo series... and you don't love Loki: Agent of Asgard, you literally have no other LGBT solo series to read. If you're POC and don't love Mighty Avengers, the only other predominantly POC series is X-men. That's your only other choice. If you're SWM and you don't like Fantastic Four (which sees you represented) you can move to Daredevil, or New Avengers or frankly every team that isn't X-men (because it's all female). There is a strong desire by minorities to see themselves represented in media, because it creates the idea of inclusion. They like seeing "people like them" in media because we are still at the point where "seeing people like them" is a rarity to get excited about, not a norm to be indifferent too. Nearly every TV show, film, comic has a SWM in it. There is always "someone like them" to see/identify with. The same is not true for other minorities.

[Prof. Warren]

The problem is that Remender's Captain America run has been bad and Jason Aaron's run on Thor has been good.

I wouldn't put it in terms of bad and good as I think Remender's Cap is damn solid but I will say that it's pretty clear that Aaron's Thor was more popular, more acclaimed and simply selling more to begin with so it makes sense that the relaunch would give people who were curious about his Thor work an added incentive to get on board with the new volume. Remender's Cap, on the other hand, has been divisive for some and was not selling as well prior to the relaunch. But it was doing fine and the new volume, in turn, is also doing well. That it isn't doing Thor numbers doesn't mean much as it wasn't matching Thor in sales previously, either.

I haven't read the article because I hate "think pieces" that labor in support of a shaky premise.

[ddidit64]

ALL of this doesn't matter...soon as Secret Wars hit (or should I say when its over) - Marvel will probalby put things back the way they were...for they are ending/cancelling 33 titles on the cusp of Secret Wars beginning. So, all this discussion...even though enlightening - is for naught.

Immonen is off to draw Star Wars...

No clue what is next for the artist on Thor...

So again, nice discussion...but futile.

[rpriske]

I wasn't reading either book but I WAS reading Captain America & the Mighty Avengers and I found it VERY unfortunate that the first story I read after Sam took over as Cap was him turning evil.

It really didn't sit well with me.

[rdman]

Not really feeling both. Why not Steve's son take over as Captain America? As for female Thor,... Meh. I like the Odinson better. And Im suspicious on how they are reporting the sales of Thor versus readership.

[Trident]

So far I'd have to agree with you.

I mean, I understand having him struggle a bit as Captain America, I mean, if it was too easy and he could be like Steve right from the get go, then it would be like anyone could wield the shield. But it's kind of getting to be a bit depressing.

The thing is Sam isn't like Bucky who had been out of the superhero game for years or been in and out of cryo-sleep or whatever.
Sam has been a Hero almost non-stop since he left that island with Steve. Everyone keeps saying "Sam needs to earn it" and all that other ,IMO, bull but at the same time never acknowledging that he isn't fresh off the boat.

The guy as severed with Avenegers on multiple occasions, kicks but on his free time without a "real" break, has leadership experience, and has been a reoccurring partner for Steve longer than anyone. This , again IMO, should not have been a trial by fire period for Sam Wilison. This should have been "let me show you why Sam kicks ass" moment for him. That doesn't mean he should have been turned into a Sue or a pet character by any means but at the very least he should at least feel like the star of his damn book.

[Supernature]

I Just read both these books recently and Thor definitely has a lot more going for it than ANCA.

FalCap is held back by its really simple plot: a basic B-movie level villainous scheme and a titular character who spends more time flopping around like a Magikarp while others take care of business. Its only saving grace is the art, and that's gonna be gone soon.

Thor is a more fun read: it's got an unsolved mystery and more interesting tensions between characters. It also moves at a faster pace.

Hopefully FalCap gets better because I want to support it.

[Tom Reed]

The thing is Sam isn't like Bucky who had been out of the superhero game for years or been in and out of cryo-sleep or whatever.
Sam has been a Hero almost non-stop since he left that island with Steve. Everyone keeps saying "Sam needs to earn it" and all that other ,IMO, bull but at the same time never acknowledging that he isn't fresh off the boat.

The guy as severed with Avenegers on multiple occasions, kicks but on his free time without a "real" break, has leadership experience, and has been a reoccurring partner for Steve longer than anyone. This , again IMO, should not have been a trial by fire period for Sam Wilison. This should have been "let me show you why Sam kicks ass" moment for him. That doesn't mean he should have been turned into a Sue or a pet character by any means but at the very least he should at least feel like the star of his damn book.

My problem with Sam Wilson as cap is the way they shoved him down our throats. Ok, give him the shield, but why does him now being cap automatically make him the defacto leader of the Avengers? Made no sense to me.

[Cap10nate]

The problem is that Remender's Captain America run has been bad and Jason Aaron's run on Thor has been good.

That is my belief as well. Thor: God of Thunder was a fantastic book which made me want to continue reading what Aaron has to offer on the character even if it meant the changes that occurred. I have still been enjoying the new volume of Thor. Obviously, I do not think it is as good as God Butcher/Bomb, but it is still an engaging and interesting story.

Remender's Captain America, on the other hand, left me wanting after 25 issues and $100. I did not want to continue the patronage of his book even though I much prefer Captain America to Thor. It's not like I am opposed to someone else being Cap either as Brubaker's Captain America is my favorite run. The difference is that Brubaker's run was a tremendous story while Remender's was frustrating the whole way through. Had the 25 issues leading up to Sam being Cap been a better and more enjoyable story, I would still be reading the book despite the drastic change in the book as I am with Thor.

[Shawn Kane]

The problem is that Remender's Captain America run has been bad and Jason Aaron's run on Thor has been good.

Agreed as far as Remender's Cap goes (I'm not buying Thor). I've been totally underwhelmed by Rick Remender's Captain America. Unfortunately, he's been paired with some great artists so I've continued to buy the book. I don't think not buying the book is a shot against Sam Wilson. I've said before that I'd love to read a Falcon book (not written by Rick Remender, of course).

[CSTowle]

Here's to hoping that Sam Wilson's time as the substitute Captain America can do for him what it did for Bucky Barnes. Namely, getting him out of the shadow of Steve Rogers and becoming an A-list hero in his own right when he returns to being Falcon. Done properly, a Falcon ongoing (or whatever passes for "ongoing," now) would be great for everyone.

Done properly, an ongoing Shamrock or Nightwatch ongoing would be great for everyone. As to wearing the Cap suit (minus the head-wings) making you A-List, Bucky's roaming around space and has been basically marginalized in the greater Marvel U (technically with an important job, but one that isolates him from the Avengers/FF/X-Men/etc.). If anything Falcon getting some screen time in the new Avengers films might help. It's probably a stretch to imagine a solo film, but I could see a Netflix series.

[Of Atlantis]

I have been absolutely loving Remender's Captain America. Felt it's the Sam Wilson book we've needed for years.

While Axis did sully FalCap's image from the get-go (and may have hurt sales because of it), I felt that Sam's current story more than makes up for the negative portrayal in Axis and Mighty Avengers. Not the smartest move, I fully acknowledge that. Seems like poor planning to me.

The opening arc is all about Sam reminding everyone why he deserves to carry the shield, and actually gets pretty meta at some points. Remender even manages to do away with his outdated origin in a pretty dignified manner. He's batting WAY out of his league, facing a united HYDRA with few allies, and things aren't exactly going smooth, but I believe Remender is having him tested in order to have him rise to the challenge, not outwardly saying he's not as good as Steve Rogers. I mean, Sam managed to talk Armadillo into betraying HYDRA and helping him. That's a pretty Captain America thing to do. It's been impressive thus far, and Remender doesn't try to cement Sam as better than Steve. In fact, he seems to be addressing naysayers by simply showing him as capable under huge odds. I believe that's the point.