The Mission: The Allure of Marvel's Female Thor & the All-New Captain America's Struggle

[Cold Water]

Here's to hoping that Sam Wilson's time as the substitute Captain America can do for him what it did for Bucky Barnes. Namely, getting him out of the shadow of Steve Rogers and becoming an A-list hero in his own right when he returns to being Falcon. Done properly, a Falcon ongoing (or whatever passes for "ongoing," now) would be great for everyone.

This. I'd totally buy a Falcon ongoing.

[Rogue Star]

With news of the impressive sales of Marvel's new "Thor" series, Joseph Illidge makes comparisons to the publisher's "All-New Captain America."


Full article here.

The difference for me is that Falcon is Falcon, and he's not a super soldier so he can't replace Captain America. He still feels like Falcon to me. Thor (the current Thor) has not been established as anyone else for years and years so she is able to take on the name (deal with it) without her previous identity to overcome (unless it's not Rosalind Solomon). There also isn't a drop-off in power and ability to make her a physically inferior stand-in. The biggest factors for me is that I read more female led books than anything else and that I'm genuinely interested in seeing where the story goes.

[Hypestyle]

The character is clearly involved in the new Avengers series-- for the first arc at least-- so hopefully Sam's tenure will continue that much longer as Cap. By the time "civil war" rolls around, who knows what the situation will be, but hopefully at least several good TPBs can come out of this.

[cranger]

Seems like pretty selective analysis. I mean, it could be worse, Sam Wilson could have gotten the Tony Stark treatment (have you seen sales of Superior Iron Man?)

Besides Immonen being yanked from an top-selling X-Men book and artists don't tend to stick around long anyway, it is not apples and oranges to compare marketing to female readers and marketing to black readers. One of those markets is over half the population and that does not exclude black readers either. A comic book company makes that connection to that market and the existence of other minority representation will be noticed, hopefully.

[ZeonsSilverStar]

This is also true.

The new Thor book has been good but Remender hasn't shown Falcon to be an adequate Captain America at all.

Can't speak for the new Thor but with All New Cap it's a little jarring to see the hero get saved constantly. Even if this is his first outing as Captain America Sam is still a hero with experience.

[Overhazard]

Can't speak for the new Thor but with All New Cap it's a little jarring to see the hero get saved constantly. Even if this is his first outing as Captain America Sam is still a hero with experience.

Mark Waid had Sam replace Steve once, I don't know how long he replaced him, he even wore Steve's costume.

[Tofali]

I wish i cared about female Thor. I'm being held hostage by the mystery of what made Thor unworthy. The two books cant be compared.

[ZeonsSilverStar]

Mark Waid had Sam replace Steve once, I don't know how long he replaced him, he even wore Steve's costume.

Okay that I did not know. How was Sam's tenure as Cap back then?

[ROSA13]

The problem with LADY THOR is that it doesn't make any sense in terms of the history of the character. Picking up Mjolnir does not transform a person into Thor -- it gives them a Thor-like costume and the powers of Thor, but they keep their own identity. For example, when Wonder Woman picked up the hammer, she did not become Thor. Her costume changed and she got Thor's powers, but remained Diana. Same thing with Beta Ray Bill. Same thing with Captain America.She is not Thor. She is some other character who has mjolnir and Thor's powers, but she is not Thor. Thor Odinson,I don't understand why she's using the name Thor. It's not a mantle like Captain America, or Spiderman. Thor is his given name! I don't see anything wrong with her taking up the hammer and using it's powers, but couldn't she find some other themed name to call herself?

[Harpoon]

I don't agree with this idea that Sam's done nothing except been saved at all.

He still held his own against Batroc and Crossbones, and later KO'd the latter in one strike. He still utterly defeated Sin. He still got through to Armadillo and convinced him to turn against HYDRA. He still pummelled Zemo several times. He still stopped Zemo from sterilizing a lot of people using nothing but his own superpowers.

He isn't just letting others "take charge" at all.

[Adjudicator]

Here is my thing and why I dropped cap after collecting since 1982. The idea that falcon can't stand on his own that they have to tag him with the name Captain America so he will sell is insulting to the charter. I would have loved a solo falcon comic, but not this.

[Of Atlantis]

I don't agree with this idea that Sam's done nothing except been saved at all.

He still held his own against Batroc and Crossbones, and later KO'd the latter in one strike. He still utterly defeated Sin. He still got through to Armadillo and convinced him to turn against HYDRA. He still pummelled Zemo several times. He still stopped Zemo from sterilizing a lot of people using nothing but his own superpowers.

He isn't just letting others "take charge" at all.

Thank you. And it's not like Bucky wasn't constantly trying to live up to expectations either. How many times did Sam or Widow bail him out?

And especially when you're facing all of HYDRA, I'm sure a bit of help is warranted. And it's like his speech with Armadillo means nothing. Being Cap is more about just punching faces and kicking teeth and I feel like Sam is doing a pretty good job in his solo title carrying the mantle.

[lalomartins]

I don't agree with this idea that Sam's done nothing except been saved at all.

He still held his own against Batroc

Yeah, I guess that's my cue to leave this thread

[Rene Narciso]

As a liberal, I am aware of the importance of more positive representation of women and minorities in heroic fiction. But as an old timey comic fan, I confess that I never liked temporary replacements of popular superheroes. It still has the smell of a gimmick, ever since I first encountered this practice in the 1980s and 1990s.

I don't consider Carol Danvers in this light, though. The Kree Mar-Vell has been dead for ages. Carol Danvers always should have been the inheritor to the title. That it took Marvel so long to do it can only be attribute to sexism and how much they've messed Carol up in the 1980s.

[tg1982]

The thing is Sam isn't like Bucky who had been out of the superhero game for years or been in and out of cryo-sleep or whatever.
Sam has been a Hero almost non-stop since he left that island with Steve. Everyone keeps saying "Sam needs to earn it" and all that other ,IMO, bull but at the same time never acknowledging that he isn't fresh off the boat.

The guy as severed with Avenegers on multiple occasions, kicks but on his free time without a "real" break, has leadership experience, and has been a reoccurring partner for Steve longer than anyone. This , again IMO, should not have been a trial by fire period for Sam Wilison. This should have been "let me show you why Sam kicks ass" moment for him. That doesn't mean he should have been turned into a Sue or a pet character by any means but at the very least he should at least feel like the star of his damn book.

I know Sam's experienced at being a hero, I'm actually a big fan of his, that's the only reason why I'm mostly okay (I say mostly because, I'm not really a big fan of him losing the SSS and becoming 90 years old) with him replacing my favorite hero in Steve Rogers, because I was hoping it would do the same for him as it did for the Winter Soldier, in giving him his own solo as Falcon, when Steve eventually regains his shield.

I totally agree with you in that Sam has earned his shot at being Captain America, but having experience as one hero doesn't mean he should be able to take over being another hero and using a weapon, that he's never, to my knowledge used before, from a guy who is, quite frankly, better than him in all regards (I'm talking about physically and experience, not on a personal or character level) and not be shown to be at a little disadvantage, or struggle a bit when it's his first outing as Captain America, I just don't think it should be to this extent. If Sam came out and was just as good at being Cap as Steve is/was then that would be a disservice to Steve Rogers (and all the other Caps), literally saying that it's easy being Cap and anyone could be able to do it, and as history shows us, that is not the case.