The Mission: The Allure of Marvel's Female Thor & the All-New Captain America's Struggle

[Jeff Brady]

Joe Illidge lives in my neighborhood? Sweet!

[Maverick]

Question-if Falcon was given a solo instead of this and still be in 3-4 other books-would it have gotten 120k orders for that first issue?

Would you have seen that book get announced on the Corbert report?

To answer this question, Nope. As the article indicated, orders for the second issue plummeted thereafter. Which could have been for a number of reason(s) that include (but are not limited to); race of the character, general lack of interest, alienation of one character fan base for another, and the typical drop in units that most comics experience after an initial launch.

In other words all the variants and stuff we saw when Sam took over would not happen if he was Falcon. Marvel was trying to cash in on that movie and while it worked comic book side wise-it actually failed outside comics

Marvel could have launched a Captain America/Falcon title with the same prolific writer & artist creative team that is Remender/Immonen, with the attempt to cash in on that movie as well. Which could have sold as many units as All New Captain America is selling now.

[ZeonsSilverStar]

It was only for a few issues for one story arc. Sam did it cuz Steve was out of action and he didn't want the Sons of the Serpent to ruin the idea of captain america.

Ah thanks for the information. How were Sam's showings back then?

[Of Atlantis]

I mean, I understand the criticisms towards Sam not getting as many wins as people feel he should, but this is only the first arc and it's not over yet. And maybe Ian is getting the spotlight sometimes as a way to push the character, but it doesn't do much else than have him be part of the story. I don't think it undermines Sam given the circumstances that being Captain America is more than just punching people in the face and winning fights. Bucky's needed saving, as has Steve. I just feel like being Captain America is much more than that, and I feel Remender has been doing that through Sam's internal narratives. At the end of the day, when it's Sam who saves everyone, he'll have top billing while I feel I'd look back at the story and see Ian and Misty as his support.

I feel it does a lot better job in not undermining his predecessor like Thor is doing, as it makes a point to say Sam is currently earning the mantle rather than just being deemed as worthy.

[Sighphi]

That's a drop of 41%, meaning "Thor" managed to retain more than half of its original audience through the inevitable drop in sales after its first issue.

Those are order numbers, we dont know how many people actually bought the book.
These numbers show that comic stores like ordering the first issue of a comic book.
These orders are made months in advance.

[Huntsman Spider]

Question-if Falcon was given a solo instead of this and still be in 3-4 other books-would it have gotten 120k orders for that first issue?

Would you have seen that book get announced on the Corbert report?

In other words all the variants and stuff we saw when Sam took over would not happen if he was Falcon. Marvel was trying to cash in on that movie and while it worked comic book side wise-it actually failed outside comics.

We see what Marvel is doing with Ms Marvel & Lady Thor-the A Book and magazine with first issues from those respective series.

Why was that not done with Falcon? Why couldn't that have been done with Falcon, Miles, Nova, Bother Voodoo, Ghostrider & Black Panther? Along with the A Book?



Why is it my job as a minority to keep Captain Falcon or any minority book around?

Why are we required to read every single minority lead book?

Where are the gun happy talking raccoon reading Rocket Raccoon?

Where are the zombies reading Walking Dead?

Maybe minorities don't want to read comics because the comic book fans is hostile towards them. The hate towards some of the minorities heroes is disgusting. Especially the black ones.

How many pages of complaints have we seen aimed at Black Panther? Eli Bradley? Static? John Stewart? Heck you got folks that write ESSAYS about how much they HATE John Stewart.

We don't need more minority readers to support minority lead books. We need more folks to leave minority books, their fans & minority creators ALONE. Stop making us feel unwelcome.

The bolded, because I thought it was a very good point. At some point, the onus does need to be placed on those in the historical majority (often heterosexuals, males, and/or whites --- the last mostly in the Western/North American context) to stop trying to push out or block minorities from fully participating and investing in the society or culture. Despite what anyone might think of how well Sam Wilson is handled as the new Captain America or the new female Thor is handled in the Thor comics, the unfortunate reality is that we do have segments of the readership, reflective to an unfortunate degree of the segments of the wider society and culture that readership exists in, who are actively resentful of and invested in the failure of minority/female/LGBT participation in those domains. That is the albatross that society ultimately has to overcome.

[leo619]

And yet, Sam still showed himself as the better fighter than Zemo; the only reason he didn't KO him was because he was distracted by stuff that was a lot more important than punching out the villain. If you're going to count Nomad not taking that opportunity as still a victory for him despite you considering a victory to be a KO, side switch, or surrender, then you should count the two opportunities Sam had as two victories, too.

I did not claim it as a victory for Nomad. I stated Nomad saved Captain America, which is correct. To state that Sam was the better fighter is also debateable as Sam was put down numerous times just like Zemo was put down numerous times, and both individuals got back up. And whether you believe it was more important to not punch the villain out still doesn't change the fact that it took Nomad saving Sam in order for Sam to lay out the villain.

Sam still plainly beat Sin. I don't see how her running away isn't a win for him at all--just because she kicked him?

I already explain why I do not consider it a victory in my previous post, you believe Sam plainly beat Sin, I don't. That's why I said the second statement is debateable as terms of victory and winning in combat ranges from person to person. Many people consider a ring out in a fighting match to be a victory, many others don't. The same applies here.

[tg1982]

I see what your saying but I think you may have misunderstood me.

For instance I could careless if Sam ever throws the Shield. While him being Caps partner longer than any other character would lead you to think that the guy has practiced with it time to time I don't care if he can't use it. What I'm a little peeved with is that we seen Sam side by side with Steve Rodgers and keep up with him for years. Not only that but Sam is a character who has served as an Avengers already. Sam is character who has worked on his own on multiple occasions. But people keep saying that he should have some disadvantage when becoming Cap like he is some fresh hero like Ms Marvel or something. The only thing Sam should be potentially be having a problem with is inspiring and installing confidence in others. The not holding his own against C-List villains like Cobra doesn't fly under the "he needs to struggle" for me.


The guy in All New Cap is seeming more and more like a vehicle to push Nomad.

All the while Thor Girl II is kicking the original Thor's butt and beating Absorbing Man's @$$ like ....well like he stole something. WTF

Ah. Yeah I see. We had a little miscommunication, when I said struggle and/or disadvantage I was referring to the shield like throwing it and H2H with the shield. I don't think he should be able to throw and fight with it with the same skill and accuracy the Steve has, at least, not right away.

Yeah I totally agree that he shouldn't struggle against C-listers. I'm not against Sam struggling against Cap's A-list foes who Steve and Bucky has struggled against, like Crossbones (who whooped up on Steve in Winter Soldier), or even Zemo (who, IIRC, put a whoopin' on Bucky Cap), but he should still come out on top, and he DEFINITELY shouldn't get this much help, this often in the same arc, ESPECIALLY the FIRST arc. I agree, it makes him seem almost incompetent, and Sam is NOT that.

As for Thor, I haven't read it due to financial reasons but I do plan on getting them either in back issues or trade. So I really can't speak much on that.