Batman and Robin #40 Spoilers/Discussion

[charliehustle415]

I don't even consider them different things. To me they're just the same thing with a different title.

Yeah, however, Tomasi isn't returning to write the series. It will be written and drawn by Gleason.

[PyroSikTh]

Yeah, however, Tomasi isn't returning to write the series. It will be written and drawn by Gleason.

Exactly. It's still Damian drawn by Gleason. All it loses are Batman and Tomasi.

[Stormcrow]

From shAt little we've heard, it will be a completely different type of book - more of a sci-if action adventure. Gleason's writing will have a very different style than Tomasi's, and I doubt it'll carry on any plots from this series but will rather stand on its own.

Other than being drawn by Gleason and featuring Robin, I don't think we can consider it much of a continuation of this book. Just the continuation of Damian's development I suppose.

[K. Jones]

From shAt little we've heard, it will be a completely different type of book - more of a sci-if action adventure. Gleason's writing will have a very different style than Tomasi's, and I doubt it'll carry on any plots from this series but will rather stand on its own.

Other than being drawn by Gleason and featuring Robin, I don't think we can consider it much of a continuation of this book. Just the continuation of Damian's development I suppose.

I often refer to these sorts of things as pseudo-sequels. We saw it a lot with Morrison's run. He worked with Tony Daniel, then Tony ran on his own for a while. Things might not have been proper "sequel" material but it did tend to be pretty good companion material to run parallel to the "big author storyline" next title over. And we saw it with Andy Kubert's Damian mini ... we saw it with David Finch launching his awful Dark Knight stuff out of his guest spot in The Return. Burnham got in on some of the final Incorporated writing. It obviously happens with other characters, too. J.H. Williams took over Batwoman from Rucka.

Par for the course.

[Deniz Camp]

Damian, for me, died when Morrison stopped writing him. The character I had become accustomed to, and grew to care about, hasn't been seen since.

I'm sure there will be a shift as Gleason takes over the writing duties, but I can't say I'll be too bothered. Worst case is that it's a bit more off model than Tomasi's version. But there is a chance - slim, dim, guttering - that Gleason's Damian will be closer to the one I had so much affection for (who we saw also in BQM's Batgirl and nowhere else).

So that's exciting. And even if it's not, the plots might be better than the frankly unengaging work we've gotten from Tomasi.

[ispacehead]

Damian, for me, died when Morrison stopped writing him. The character I had become accustomed to, and grew to care about, hasn't been seen since.

I'm still kinda bummed that they brought him back.

I would much rather have seen a new Robin emerge, but obviously the popularity of the character dictated the course of this book.

I'm glad to see it end for this reason.

I will check out Damian's book, but doubt I will be a regular subscriber.

[JasonTodd428]

Worst case is that it's a bit more off model than Tomasi's version. But there is a chance - slim, dim, guttering - that Gleason's Damian will be closer to the one I had so much affection for (who we saw also in BQM's Batgirl and nowhere else).

So that's exciting. And even if it's not, the plots might be better than the frankly unengaging work we've gotten from Tomasi.

I'm hoping it's going to tell more engaging stories then Tomasi managed to tell. That would be a big plus in my book since it was Tomasi's writing that ultimately drove me away from the book and character. I also hope Gleason's Damian will be better than Tomasi's version and that I can finally get back to liking the character that I had grown to like before the reboot. I'd love to see more of him to be honest. I said a long while back that I would be back to reading the book if and when Tomasi left it. Of course this is a different book altogether but still Tomasi's not writing Damian anymore so that's reason enough for me to give it a try. It's up to Gleason to keep me though.

[Stormcrow]

I often refer to these sorts of things as pseudo-sequels. We saw it a lot with Morrison's run. He worked with Tony Daniel, then Tony ran on his own for a while. Things might not have been proper "sequel" material but it did tend to be pretty good companion material to run parallel to the "big author storyline" next title over. And we saw it with Andy Kubert's Damian mini ... we saw it with David Finch launching his awful Dark Knight stuff out of his guest spot in The Return. Burnham got in on some of the final Incorporated writing. It obviously happens with other characters, too. J.H. Williams took over Batwoman from Rucka.

Par for the course.

Tony Daniel's run is a similar situation, I don't consider it a sequel or even a pseudo-sequel or companion to Morrison's work by any means. His run was pretty much self contained, not really following upon his work with Morrison. He actually followed up on plot points from David Hine's Arkham Reborn story, so it's definitely a sequel from that other story.

Now, J.H. Williams on Batwoman is absolutely a sequel to his work with Rucka as he took what they built together and ran with it. And Kubert's horrible Damian mini, too, I suppose. Although that one felt more like a What If...?

I'm leaning towards Robin: Son of Batman being its own thing keeping only the art and the character in common with Batman and Robin. In any case, I just hope Patrick Gleason's writing is better than Daniel's or Kubert's.

[K. Jones]

Tony Daniel's run is a similar situation, I don't consider it a sequel or even a pseudo-sequel or companion to Morrison's work by any means. His run was pretty much self contained, not really following upon his work with Morrison. He actually followed up on plot points from David Hine's Arkham Reborn story, so it's definitely a sequel from that other story.

Now, J.H. Williams on Batwoman is absolutely a sequel to his work with Rucka as he took what they built together and ran with it. And Kubert's horrible Damian mini, too, I suppose. Although that one felt more like a What If...?

I'm leaning towards Robin: Son of Batman being its own thing keeping only the art and the character in common with Batman and Robin. In any case, I just hope Patrick Gleason's writing is better than Daniel's or Kubert's.

That's definitely true of Life After Death, which certainly blended Hine's Arkham stuff, but which was itself a riff off of Battle for the Cowl. Definitely. I mean beyond that he used like every bat character ever. It was one of your typical "artist is writing, and he wants to draw every damn character" scenarios, but it yielded some great concepts at least - Black Mask having possibly supernatural hypnotic powers, the Ministry of Death made up of the various "Evil Pharmacology Shrinks". A lot of Jeph Loeb stuff that he brought back in and continued playing with. Basically he played with everything Grant wasn't interested in playing with (IE; the normal Batman stuff we always see). Oh and Reaper was an O'Neil/Adams jam. Still, picking the stuff he likes from the entire publication history was a pretty Morrison-move.

Eye of the Beholder features The Sensei returning and is a direct sequel to Tony's debut during Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul. It's probably exclusively why I thought about Tony in a pseudo-sequel sense. It was quite apropos as a lead-in title during the Incorporated launch. None of these are exactly great stories, of course. Just companion material for either Batman addicts or Batman fans who don't know better. But I read the whole run (through Detective) and it had some noteworthy quirks, like a mild semblance of continuity within its own corner. He introduced Penguin's floating Iceberg Casino as a replacement for the one Higgins destroyed in Gates of Gotham. He created all those wacky Penguin goons who are quite awesome (I realized during my last Incorporated read-through that The Imperceptible Man was at Talia's takeover table!). His Detective actually continued the story of Mayor Sebastian Hady and fleshed out Morrison's one-off, barely utilized except that OYL Gotham "needed a mayor" figure. (I mean, as is the case with these things, he created all those colorful goons but only developed Mister Toxic, badly. Then Layman actually did more work with them.)

Hence the major emphasis on "pseudo-" I guess.

See now, Grayson, that's a proper sequel.

[Panfoot]

While I liked the issue, and the previous few, I really dislike that his powers are already gone. Feels like a waste of a good concept that should have been explored for longer then just 3 issues.

[Diggy]

Eh, solid closer. I've read most of it but I've never really been crazy about this run. At times its just felt too simplistic, "cutesy," and dumbed down, and Damian isn't nearly as entertaining under Tomasi as Morrison. Overall though it's had its moments and did a decent enough job furthering the Batman/Damian dynamic.

[thwhtGuardian]

The whole death in Batman Inc. never sat right with me and his absence and his return was a bit of a slog sometimes but I loved that last panel. "Is something wrong...you're smiling." That's just perfect.

[Stormcrow]

The whole death in Batman Inc. never sat right with me and his absence and his return was a bit of a slog sometimes but I loved that last panel. "Is something wrong...you're smiling." That's just perfect.

Yeah, his death seemed wholly unnecessary to me... That was probably the only thing I didn't like about Batman Inc.

I know Grant Morrison planned to kill him right from the start, but the character certainly outgrew that and became a big deal. I'm just glad they went ahead and brought him back, even if it was waaay too convoluted when they could have just gone "Lazarus Pit!" being Ra's al Ghul grandson and all.

Anyway, now that's taken care of I can't wait to see him on his own long overdue series. And with him showing up in Gotham Academy I hope he continues to pop up in other books - I need a Batgirl/Robin team-up ASAP.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Gonna miss this book, Born to Kill and The Big Burn being my favourite arcs of the series. Let's see what Robin's solo is like, with Gleason on writing duties and the 3.99 price tag I really hope it grabs me straight away.

[charliehustle415]

With the end of this book, Morrison's Batman run has all of its loose ends tied up (i.e. sons of Batman). I wish they had a series with Batman 666 though...