New Avengers 32 *spoilers*

[Raye]

i understand that but it looks like a childish move for me… i played with my toys now nobody will play with them anymore.

It's becoming a pretty popular practice for Marvel. A writer will create a very interesting concept, then kill if off when they're done. To be fair, some of this is done to protect that concept from harm done by lesser writers. An example of this is kidLoki from JiM. Sure, we have AoA Loki, but he isn't kidLoki.

In this case, I think it's less to do with him protecting his 'toys' like Gillen did with Kid Loki, and more that they were created for a specific purpose, and that purpose has been fulfilled. They may have been created to die (and some of the other things they did before that) so that he would not be forced to kill off any more long standing characters than he had to in this fight with the Beyonders, which was necessary for the story to progress, but the characters facing them kinda had to die, given the situation. That he made us care about them beforehand is great, it means their death had more emotional impact.

[robreedwrites]

In this case, I think it's less to do with him protecting his 'toys' like Gillen did with Kid Loki, and more that they were created for a specific purpose, and that purpose has been fulfilled. They may have been created to die (and some of the other things they did before that) so that he would not be forced to kill off any more long standing characters than he had to in this fight with the Beyonders, which was necessary for the story to progress, but the characters facing them kinda had to die, given the situation. That he made us care about them beforehand is great, it means their death had more emotional impact.

Plus if any writer wants to, they can come up with some crazy way to bring them back.

[Jody Garland]

I hate to ask 'cuz it makes me feel dumb, but how did Ex Nihlo turn the Beyonder into Yggdrasil? What's a 'solid state'?

[celeherald]

Sci-fi mumbo jumbo for the most part. Probably has to do with the shaping of ideas and the power that holds.

[peterporker]

i understand that but it looks like a childish move for me… i played with my toys now nobody will play with them anymore.

We know that almost everyone is going to die before the end of this story, so what do you expect, him saving the characters he introduced? So to be criticized by the same people for doing the opposite of what he has done?

[Rosebunse]

We know that almost everyone is going to die before the end of this story, so what do you expect, him saving the characters he introduced? So to be criticized by the same people for doing the opposite of what he has done?

I don't think EVERYONE is going to die. Just a lot of people.

[Gordonstar]

Majority of Earth will die. And so will the C and d listers.

[JKtheMac]

I was not talking about Ereshkigal. It is not Ereshkigal that we just saw destroy a Beyonder, it is Kevin Conner, whose power was defined at a much lower level than Ereshkigal's. This much lower Star Brand power level was consistent with the level of power of alternate Star Brand Reed Richards in Hickman's FF run. And alt. Star Brand Reed Richard's defeat at the hand of Celestials does say something, namely that he was not powerful enough to beat them.

You are splitting hairs based on incorrect assumptions. This Starbrand was broken, no one said he was less powerful. And the Beyoners made him go nova in a very unique manner that would leave Hickman free reign to do whatever he wants. And he did that because its up to him, he and his editors are happy with it so it stands.

It has been Hickman's full time job to research and write this and the editors have been doing their job for years. Plus they have the advantage that they can change things to make them fit the vision they want for the future. They are not beholden to the past, their responsibility is the future of Marvel.

[JKtheMac]

I hate to ask 'cuz it makes me feel dumb, but how did Ex Nihlo turn the Beyonder into Yggdrasil? What's a 'solid state'?

We can assume Hickman is drawing a parallel between the mythical structure of the universe (world tree) and the subtance of the Beyonders. He is redefining the cosmos. Abyss and Ex-Nihilo together are representing creation from primal chaos. It feels thematically right that they could do this especially as they sacrificed themselves to do so.

[ShaokhaN]

You are splitting hairs based in incorrect assumptions. This Starbrand was broken, no one said he was less powerful. And the Beyoners made him go nova in a very unique manner that would leave Hickman free reign to do whatever he wants. And he did that because its up to him, he and his editors are happy with it so it stands.

I'm not splitting hairs, and I'm not basing my argument on incorrect assumptions either. All I presented were facts:

1. This Star Brand is not Ereshkigal. At no point were we told that Kevin Conner had as much power as Ereshkigal did.
2. The way Kevin Conner has been described as a Star Brand implied a much lower power level than Ereshkigal. Indeed, he was described as a "planetary defense system" and as capable of "destroying a planet". Not as capable of destroying galaxies, let alone universes, let alone the multiverse.
3. We've seen Hickman use a Star Brand before, and that Star Brand (an alternate Reed Richards) was incapable of defeating the Celestials that attacked the Council of Reeds. Alt. RR Star Brand was even killed by the said Celestials. All Star Brands are therefore not necessarily as powerful as Ereshkigal.

All of those are facts, not "incorrect assumptions".

Of course it's "up to" Hickman. Just like it was up to the writer of Spider-Man to have him defeat Firelord with his fists. It doesn't change the fact that's it PIS.

[JKtheMac]

What's a 'solid state'?

Abyss says "I can see what they are! The Forms they take are manifestations -- solid states containing their very essence."

She is implying that although they are from a transcendent realm they have manifested or taken on a physical form in our reality. BUT the physical form is a manifestation of what they are when transcendent and their form still contains that transcendent quality within. Abyss and Ex Nihilo are able to reshape it into something 'better'.

[TresDias]

I'll give you that the Firelord thing has always been stupid. I just don't see it in this case -- as I mentioned before, I'd have been disappointed had Hickman not drawn on the potential that has been displayed before by the power of the Starbrand.

[JKtheMac]

At no point were we told that Kevin Conner had as much power as Ereshkigal did.

And at no point are we told he has less i.e. incorrect assumption.

[ShaokhaN]

And at no point are we told he has less i.e. incorrect assumption.

You're willfully ignoring the rest of my post. I rest my case.

[ROSA13]

Hoping we’ll see where they end up in Secret Wars.