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  1. #376

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    Quote Originally Posted by vitruvian View Post
    So, none from the Sun, despite the panel saying so? Or are all those in addition to the solar energy?
    You asked "where the energy to multiply the energy from the Sun is supposed to come from," I answered.

  2. #377
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TresDias View Post
    I've been wondering that lately myself -- whether the power of the White Event (and, consequently, the Starbrands) comes from opening a hole to the Beyond Realm. The Starbrand's power is basically wish fulfillment like a Cosmic Cube.
    Wow. That sounds like a great concept.

  3. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by vitruvian View Post
    Just checking... you're just joking about how badly science is written in comics, even by Hickman, not suggesting that lenses actually add energy to a beam of light rather than concentrating it, right?
    Choose your own adventure. =)

  4. #379
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    I always got the impression it was storing energy for later use. Whether it then uses some kind of light amplification process with this stored energy is not clear to me.
    I was always concerned with a true anvil that surrounds a sun. A sun usually radiates all the energy of its furnace right? But if the sun doesn't radiate, but keeps getting reflected back on itself, what does a runaway furnace do that can't get rid of its energy? I can't see an anvil surviving a solar explosion.

    A true anvil would have to direct all the Suns energy away, continually. None of it could stay inside the anvil. But it means it's beam would be like a knife slicing through the universe. If it can kill a Beyonder, it is going to be a beam of energy going at light speed through space, to cause who knows what?
    Last edited by jackolover; 04-02-2015 at 06:38 PM.

  5. #380
    Astonishing Member vitruvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TresDias View Post
    Choose your own adventure. =)
    Well, it's just that if it's the latter (actually not knowing that lenses don't add but only concentrate energy), I'm going to correct you, because you're a real person rather than a comic book character and nobody should remain that misinformed... ;-)

  6. #381
    Astonishing Member vitruvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    I was always concerned with a true anvil that surrounds a sun. A sun usually radiates all the energy of its furnace right? But if the sun doesn't radiate, but keeps getting reflected back on itself, what does a runaway furnace do that can't get rid of its energy? I can't see an anvil surviving a solar explosion.

    A true anvil would have to direct all the Suns energy away, continually. None of it could stay inside the anvil. But it means it's beam would be like a knife slicing through the universe. If it can kill a Beyonder, it is going to be a beam of energy going at light speed through space, to cause who knows what?
    First off, it's not that, because everybody on Earth has still been getting daylight and other places have been able to see the Sun.

    Secondly, even if all the energy of the Sun (rather than whatever fraction a partial Dyson sphere can capture) were concentrated into one beam of energy, that beam would only have the power output of the Sun, which is way too little to blow up a planet. You'd have to save up all of the Sun's power output for a week or two, then let it all out at once.

  7. #382
    Astonishing Member vitruvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misterfranklin View Post
    You asked "where the energy to multiply the energy from the Sun is supposed to come from," I answered.
    Okay, but the geothermal isn't even enough to multiply the energy by a fraction of a percent, and if the others are big enough in magnitude that they can provide multiples of the Sun's power output, why not just use them directly?

  8. #383
    Senior Member ShaokhaN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misterfranklin View Post
    The energy comes from a stable geothermal vent under Old Atlantis, a dynamo in the Blue Area of the moon, and the High Evolutionary's Ascension Engine, all focused through a portal to the Negative Zone. Unfortunately the archived version of Hickman's formspring only goes back to the beginning of 2013. Here's a panel from FF #15, though.
    Attachment 20222
    That's an interesting claim (that Sol's Anvil is the most powerful weapon ever constructed by man only - I'm guessing he meant "at that time"). MC2 Reed Richards fired a ray that seems to have been similarly powerful, considering it incapacitated many of that universe's abstracts (including the LT):





    With regards to the argument that it's silly to mention PIS because the Star Brand comes from the superflow, I've provided enough quotes and references from 616 Hickman canon demonstrating it can very well be argued that we were not shown Kevin Conner had the type of power needed to defeat a Beyonder.

  9. #384
    Veteran Member jphamlore's Avatar
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    I find the two Beyonders being defeated in New Avengers #32 much more plausible by the simple trick of imaging the Beyonders deciding to film a low-budget shaky-cam mumblegore movie with two of their most hapless yet overconfident millennium members. So I picture the Beyonders sending out their two most clueless members into their equivalent of the woods / hills to get their kicks out of seeing them dealing with the equivalent of monsters / mutated humanoids.

  10. #385
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaokhaN View Post
    With regards to the argument that it's silly to mention PIS because the Star Brand comes from the superflow, I've provided enough quotes and references from 616 Hickman canon demonstrating it can very well be argued that we were not shown Kevin Conner had the type of power needed to defeat a Beyonder.
    I think what really happened is Hickman realised a few months ago that he wouldn't have the space to fully develop the character, so he farmed out the point release so that readers that were not familiar with the New Universe material would get a glimpse at the character's potential.

    No one is saying your accusation is silly. I can plainly see how this can appear odd and out of the blue. But having read quite a lot of Starbrand material I didn't think twice about it. My posts here have been mainly pointing out that it is consistent with the source material Hickman is drawing from. Also, he plainly wanted the explosion to be a surprise just as the destruction of the Builder fleet was, so he didn't want to over-stress things.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 04-03-2015 at 12:31 PM.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  11. #386
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vitruvian View Post
    First off, it's not that, because everybody on Earth has still been getting daylight and other places have been able to see the Sun.

    Secondly, even if all the energy of the Sun (rather than whatever fraction a partial Dyson sphere can capture) were concentrated into one beam of energy, that beam would only have the power output of the Sun, which is way too little to blow up a planet. You'd have to save up all of the Sun's power output for a week or two, then let it all out at once.
    No, I didn't mean Tony's partial anvil. I meant if someone totally surrounded a star with a spherical mirror and reflected all its energy back on the star, what would keep it from exploding with the eventual build up of energy in the anvil? And if a completed anvil had to be turned on continually to stave off star explosion, wouldn't that lance be strong enough to destroy a Beyonder, and so be cutting the universe where it was aimed?

  12. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    Why is it stupid?

    I really don't get this A always beats B always beats C mentality that so many fans have.

    The right kind of spider can kill a man with a bite. Yet if a toddler came along and stepped on the spider, it'd squish just like you'd expect.

    Frankly, thinking that because the spider killed a man meant it could never lose to something "less" than a man is what's stupid.



    Indeed they did. That was a brilliant ending for this group. Sad to see Nightmask and Starbrand go, but at least they went out in style.

    And I would honestly be okay if this was actually Thor's end. We all know it won't be, but if it was, I could accept it as a worthy ending for him.
    So I see a lot of good theories as to why the Beyonders can be killed by Thor and Co. but the reality here is... the Celestial Deities, Living Tribunal, Etc. being nigh omnipotent, and having lived since the birth of the multiverse, and before... surely they would easily have been able to figure out the weakness of the beyonders well before mortals endowed with abilities... no matter how great the abilities...

    The comparison of snakes, spiders... etc. Great. But these are beings that are Omnipresent, such as LT. If it took the beyonders.. a very long time to figure out how to take down the cosmic deities, and have mounted defenses again those attacks... it seems a little ridiculous that these hero's can figure out in a few months... if that.. how to defeat beyonders within the confines of wildspace, or in the properties of the host universe, where as these beings that have the ability to not just create life, but universes... knowing the past, present, and future could not figure this out in their nigh infinite existence.

    I'm sorry, but that just doesn't add up to me. And the argument that the celestial deities are so high up the feeding chain that they over looked these things... they paid attention during all the infinity related events of the past. The beyonders are proving to be above that by taking out the LT... so if anything the Cosmic Gods would have taken note of the beyonders. And the beyonders, as someone noted... would have taken note of any being that could that them out... such as Starband in his death blow, or the Abyss/Nihlo transformation.... all seems like a HUGE stretch.

    Maybe they just need Thanos to get the heart of the universe again and reset it all... but the beyonders will see that coming. The Squirrel Girl will take one of them out, maybe two if she has some pecans on her.

  13. #388
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Ugh, If Squirrel Girl does show up that really would be PIS.

    Sorry but I have to agree with hawkeyefan here and frankly find these arguments about powers and if A can take out B etc to be pointless and tedious when your talking about the pantheon of Supreme Beings. I will be glad to know that the result of all of this is to thin the herd of them. There's far too many of them IMO. Gee I miss the days of just worrying about Galactus, the Stranger and Collector, etc.

  14. #389

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    Quote Originally Posted by jphamlore View Post
    I find the two Beyonders being defeated in New Avengers #32 much more plausible by the simple trick of imaging the Beyonders deciding to film a low-budget shaky-cam mumblegore movie with two of their most hapless yet overconfident millennium members. So I picture the Beyonders sending out their two most clueless members into their equivalent of the woods / hills to get their kicks out of seeing them dealing with the equivalent of monsters / mutated humanoids.
    I been thinking about that for a while and I kind of want it to be true because that would be hilarious. Slightly wrong but hilarious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Ugh, If Squirrel Girl does show up that really would be PIS.

    Sorry but I have to agree with hawkeyefan here and frankly find these arguments about powers and if A can take out B etc to be pointless and tedious when your talking about the pantheon of Supreme Beings. I will be glad to know that the result of all of this is to thin the herd of them. There's far too many of them IMO. Gee I miss the days of just worrying about Galactus, the Stranger and Collector, etc.
    I with you on that.

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