New Avengers 32 *spoilers*

[itspopularnowitsucks]

I am pleased that these Beyonders explicitly mentioned they are conducting an experiment on the Multiverse. Thus my earlier conjecture still might be true that the Beyonders are seeking an equivalent to what physicists seek in today's universe, what lies beyond the singularity at the beginning and end of time. In this world physicists keep probing further and further back to x seconds after the Big Bang; where I think these Beyonders are probing to see what happens when a Multiverse dies and possibly is reborn. As Hank Pym said, the Beyonders, the lords of white space, "questing for the last light."

How did Hank Pym know the Quest of Beyonders though?

[Rosebunse]

So when Johnny Storm was overwhelmed by the hordes of Annihilus and of the Negative Zone, that meant he was dead, dead too, huh? Well I guess he was sort of dead, then brought back alive, over and over ... But Johnny Storm after being dead did get better in Hickman's run.

One can compare and contrast how Thor Odinson goes to what he thinks is his final battle in another Hickman book, Hickman's Ultimates, where Ultimate Thor stands with his brother Loki to go to their expected death against Ultimate Reed's Children. There was an awesome emotional moment there too as Ultimate Loki confesses that he regretted everything.

I am pleased that these Beyonders explicitly mentioned they are conducting an experiment on the Multiverse. Thus my earlier conjecture still might be true that the Beyonders are seeking an equivalent to what physicists seek in today's universe, what lies beyond the singularity at the beginning and end of time. In this world physicists keep probing further and further back to x seconds after the Big Bang; where I think these Beyonders are probing to see what happens when a Multiverse dies and possibly is reborn. As Hank Pym said, the Beyonders, the lords of white space, "questing for the last light."

So, could they be characters who know they're fictional, but they want to break out of their comic world?

[joebleau]

Anyone else find Starbrand's demise very reminecent of Firestorms death back in DC before 52 started?

If you can try to read The Pitt a book from the old New universe

[Kurolegacy]

I do agree, Hickman is giving a Master's class on incorporating in Universe continuity and adaptability. I've enjoyed the heck out of his use of Odinson and Rogers.

I've enjoyed this as well, especially with him showing that while they may not be what they once were, they're far from out of the fight. He even had his own Chekhov's Gun with Thor to get around his loss of worthiness with Thorr's hammer and brought him back into being worthy in the end. I just wish we had some kind of explanation for how Steve went from a relatively frail old man who needed a cane to combat ready enough that he can take 2 Shang Chis.

[Dopliss]

I've enjoyed this as well, especially with him showing that while they may not be what they once were, they're far from out of the fight. He even had his own Chekhov's Gun with Thor to get around his loss of worthiness with Thorr's hammer and brought him back into being worthy in the end. I just wish we had some kind of explanation for how Steve went from a relatively frail old man who needed a cane to combat ready enough that he can take 2 Shang Chis.

I guess the Super Soldier Serum in his body was not removed, but simply dormant.

[vitruvian]

Per haps this indicates that Thor and Hyperion are the first two 616 characters to get there. I wonder what part they pop up on if no 616 zone is there yet.

Well, sure, that could be the case... but there are plenty of universes that have gone before the 616, so wide swaths of territory in which they could land if they did indeed survive.

Or if the Beyonders would like these interesting specimens as game pieces on Battleworld, they could have killed them here and then just Korvac them back into existence on whatever piece of the game board they like.

[seminal2015]

Remember, the Incursion zones have been vanishing a little bit later than the rest of their universes for a while now, suggesting that they're already being taken to Battleworld.

Sorry, maybe I'm dense, but where is it established that this happens? This sort of goes back to a question I had about how the incursions work in the NA31 thread, but if anything, it seemed to me like they have to disappear/get destroyed FIRST, not last. Because if the rest of the universe disappears before the whole incursion zone does and it's determined if Earth A or B is destroyed, what's the point? Why destory Earth A if Universe B has already disappeared?

[jphamlore]

How did Hank Pym know the Quest of Beyonders though?

I assume just like Tony Stark held in captivity by the Illuminati deducing that Black Swan wanted to find a new planet to re-create her family, Hank Pym had a lot of time to think about these things while he was being driven mad by what he had seen of the abstracts and the Living Tribunal being destroyed by the Beyonders.

[jphamlore]

So, could they be characters who know they're fictional, but they want to break out of their comic world?

I see the Beyonders more as being amoral String Theorists in today's universe who are offered a chance to verify their theories using energies far beyond that conceivably available in any lab or supercollider at the cost of vaporizing a pocket universe or multiverse. Such an amoral String Theorist would not care if some intelligent beings from the pocket universe starting speaking back just before the experiment was to be concluded.

And on another note, Ultimate Thor found out that in a Hickman-written comic, to paraphrase Yakov Smirnoff, you don't go to Valhalla, Valhalla goes to you.

[Cap10nate]

Deodato is such an awesome artist. Another great chapter to this story. I hope that it can all wrap up in a satisfactory way. Still a lot of loose threads out there.

[Biclopcicle]

Sorry, maybe I'm dense, but where is it established that this happens? This sort of goes back to a question I had about how the incursions work in the NA31 thread, but if anything, it seemed to me like they have to disappear/get destroyed FIRST, not last. Because if the rest of the universe disappears before the whole incursion zone does and it's determined if Earth A or B is destroyed, what's the point? Why destory Earth A if Universe B has already disappeared?

All I'm aware of is NA 16 when TChalla notes that the explosion of the two earths "does not appear to be simultaneous." So I agree with you. There is a slight delay in the anhilation of the two earths, then the universes themselves go poof

[vitruvian]

Sorry, maybe I'm dense, but where is it established that this happens? This sort of goes back to a question I had about how the incursions work in the NA31 thread, but if anything, it seemed to me like they have to disappear/get destroyed FIRST, not last. Because if the rest of the universe disappears before the whole incursion zone does and it's determined if Earth A or B is destroyed, what's the point? Why destory Earth A if Universe B has already disappeared?

I don't remember the exact issue, but there's a scene where T'Challa is observing Incursions using the Bridge and notes that the Incursion zones are starting to persist and disappear a little later (IIRC he said something like milliseconds) than the rest of their universes. This suggests that something is happening there, perhaps those specific areas being transported to Battleworld rather than really being destroyed, although of course. By Incursion zone, we mean the area of each Earth that sees the Incursion happening and is cut off from communication from the outside for the eight hour duration, not the entirety of either Earth.

Now, this is when an Incursion completes and both universes are destroyed. Incursions that are allowed to complete are not either/or affairs, while stopping one by blowing up an Earth is, but only for the Earths.

You seem to be thinking that when somebody destroys the other Earth to prevent the Incursion from completing, the other Earth's universe (Universe B in your parlance) goes with it. This is not the case, although we now see that even universes that no longer have an Earth are decaying and dying at an accelerated rate, possibly due to the actions of the Beyonders in killing the cosmic abstracts. Plus, the delay we're talking about for the Incursion zones to go away is a fraction of a second at the end, and nobody who's blowing up Earths to try to save universes is waiting until that point in the first place.

[Biclopcicle]

Deodato is such an awesome artist. Another great chapter to this story. I hope that it can all wrap up in a satisfactory way. Still a lot of loose threads out there.

I didn't like him at first because of the way he does his hatching/shading. But his sense of composition and anatomy are unbelievable. I wish he did the entire TRO run. Oh well. The only issue that I really didn't like the art was NA 30. Weak.

[vitruvian]

I see the Beyonders more as being amoral String Theorists in today's universe who are offered a chance to verify their theories using energies far beyond that conceivably available in any lab or supercollider at the cost of vaporizing a pocket universe or multiverse. Such an amoral String Theorist would not care if some intelligent beings from the pocket universe starting speaking back just before the experiment was to be concluded.

And on another note, Ultimate Thor found out that in a Hickman-written comic, to paraphrase Yakov Smirnoff, you don't go to Valhalla, Valhalla goes to you.

616 Valhalla, you go to. Kelda and Bill did so already.

[Rosebunse]

Deodato is such an awesome artist. Another great chapter to this story. I hope that it can all wrap up in a satisfactory way. Still a lot of loose threads out there.

He's came a long way, and while I think a lot of his characters feel stiff and static to me, I find his work enjoyable and very unique, especially for Marvel.

616 Valhalla, you go to. Kelda and Bill did so already.

And it was beautiful!