New Avengers 32 *spoilers*

[jphamlore]

616 Valhalla, you go to. Kelda and Bill did so already.

Ultimate Thor also went to his version of Valhalla and actually had a son with Hela, but after Hickman took over Ultimates and destroyed Asgard, Ultimate Thor found that Valhalla was all in his head.

[vitruvian]

Ultimate Thor also went to his version of Valhalla and actually had a son with Hela, but after Hickman took over Ultimates and destroyed Asgard, Ultimate Thor found that Valhalla was all in his head.

Others saw Kelda and Bill in Valhalla, so not the case in the 616 universe.

[Ite]

Yeah seems lame that Starbrand can kill a Beyonder.

[G0RM]

So, could they be characters who know they're fictional, but they want to break out of their comic world?

Back in an Infinity Gauntlet crossover, Quasar played with the Ultimate Nullifier and ended up in the New Universe, in which the 616 is part of a series of comics published by that world's Marvel.

Regarding StarBrand killing a Beyonder, at the end of Secret Wars II, when Molecule Man killed the Beyonder, 'our' universe vanished in a 'White Event', only to be 'rescued' when Owen siphoned the excess energy into an empty universe.

If in a timeline Owen didn't save the universe, that could have been the 'premature' death that started the incursions, the New Universal & StarBrand, etc (although Bendis having Beast bring back the O5 as starting the incursions, and pissing off Uatu, seems funnier.)

[SpiderOrange]

Thor is worthy again which is great, but did we ever find out why he ever was not worthy and what Secret Nick Fury whispered to him??!?

[Rosebunse]

Ultimate Thor also went to his version of Valhalla and actually had a son with Hela, but after Hickman took over Ultimates and destroyed Asgard, Ultimate Thor found that Valhalla was all in his head.

Oh, that is cruel...

Others saw Kelda and Bill in Valhalla, so not the case in the 616 universe.

Different afterlives for different universes? It's my personal theory that the Ultimate Universe was always somewhat "dead" compared to 616. There, you have fewer gods, fewer space faring species and races, and you don't have the cosmic interference you have in 616.

Back in an Infinity Gauntlet crossover, Quasar played with the Ultimate Nullifier and ended up in the New Universe, in which the 616 is part of a series of comics published by that world's Marvel.

Regarding StarBrand killing a Beyonder, at the end of Secret Wars II, when Molecule Man killed the Beyonder, 'our' universe vanished in a 'White Event', only to be 'rescued' when Owen siphoned the excess energy into an empty universe.

If in a timeline Owen didn't save the universe, that could have been the 'premature' death that started the incursions, the New Universal & StarBrand, etc (although Bendis having Beast bring back the O5 as starting the incursions, and pissing off Uatu, seems funnier.)

So, could it be that the Beyonders are comic book writers, and they're trying to figure out an ending for their story, so they're trying out a whole bunch of options?

[Rosebunse]

Thor is worthy again which is great, but did we ever find out why he ever was not worthy and what Secret Nick Fury whispered to him??!?

No, he's still unworthy of being Thor, but he was worthy of being Thorr!

That's why he was laughing.

[Kirby Krackle]

No, he's still unworthy of being Thor, but he was worthy of being Thorr!

That's why he was laughing.

He could no longer lift the evil hammer. Which means he's no longer unworthy. Only they who are unworthy can lift that hammer. That's why he laughed and switched back to his ax.

[jphamlore]

Thor is worthy again which is great, but did we ever find out why he ever was not worthy and what Secret Nick Fury whispered to him??!?

As I speculated above, I believe Nick Fury whispered to Thor Odinson that he could not defend Midgard, especially in the aftermath of Roxxon and its CEO Dario Agger's having schemed to destroy Broxton, Oklahoma, and hence the Odinson was not worthy to wield Mjolnir. This idea fits with every story arc Jason Aaron has written in his Thor run.

The Odinson became worthy again in the moment he felt he was about to die in battle relieving him of feeling any responsibility for anything, including responsibility for Midgard's fate.

On another note, I was obviously speaking somewhat in jest referring to Valhalla in Hickman's Ultimates story winding up in Thor's head post-destruction of Asgard, but strangely enough, for the prelude trade to Secret Wars, it appears Marvel is including Hickman's Ultimate Comics Ultimates #4, no doubt to introduce readers to Ultimate Reed. But in this issue I believe Ultimate Thor is also talking to the inhabitants of Ultimate Valhalla in his head.

[Rosebunse]

He could no longer lift the evil hammer. Which means he's no longer unworthy. Only they who are unworthy can lift that hammer. That's why he laughed and switched back to his ax.

OK, so, I couldn't read that. Does that mean he was super unworthy when he fought the Beyonder?

[Coal Tiger]

OK, so, I couldn't read that. Does that mean he was super unworthy when he fought the Beyonder?

The hammer of THORR is like bizarro Mjolnir. Anyone worthy of holding Mjolnir is unworthy of holding the THORR hammer.

[vitruvian]

OK, so, I couldn't read that. Does that mean he was super unworthy when he fought the Beyonder?

No, it meant he was no longer unworthy. Read the hammer... it says whoever is unworthy can wield it.

[Shai-Hulud]

Yeah seems lame that Starbrand can kill a Beyonder.

You don't know that Starbrand killed that Beyonder. You saw it blown up, that's all.

Regarding StarBrand killing a Beyonder, at the end of Secret Wars II, when Molecule Man killed the Beyonder, 'our' universe vanished in a 'White Event', only to be 'rescued' when Owen siphoned the excess energy into an empty universe.

I was just thinking of this incident.

Molecule Man "killed" Beyonder-1 by projecting his energies into another universe and exploding them outward in a new big bang. But we later saw Beyonder-1 again, whole and hearty. And in his Kosmos incarnation, he (she) was "killed" yet again when the Annihilation wave destroyed the Kyln.

Later, the Illuminati encounter Beyonder-1 once more, happy as a lark, playing with his toys on asteroid Eros....

So that's twice that Beyonder-1 has "died" and returned. So the continuity before this issue establishes that yes, Beyonders can "die," it's just not permanent.

[klefmung]

Back in an Infinity Gauntlet crossover, Quasar played with the Ultimate Nullifier and ended up in the New Universe, in which the 616 is part of a series of comics published by that world's Marvel.

Regarding StarBrand killing a Beyonder, at the end of Secret Wars II, when Molecule Man killed the Beyonder, 'our' universe vanished in a 'White Event', only to be 'rescued' when Owen siphoned the excess energy into an empty universe.

If in a timeline Owen didn't save the universe, that could have been the 'premature' death that started the incursions, the New Universal & StarBrand, etc (although Bendis having Beast bring back the O5 as starting the incursions, and pissing off Uatu, seems funnier.)

Well, if beyonders are multiverasal creatures, including the baby beyonder, there shouldn't be any other universes in which SWII occurred, right?

[Darkcross]

I wonder what the Beyonder meant by the significance and cost of their lives. Could if be a Beyonder is tied to the multiverse? And their death would cause universes to be destroyed? We have yet to find out why several hundred thousand universes vanished I wonder if it's tied to the death of these two Beyonders.

Although this would not explain why they are destroying universes.