Spider-Island and the MC-2 Universe returns in Secret Wars...

[boots]

So I'm banned from complaining about a cheap story beat that lazy writers keep coming back to? 'This is how it's always been done' is no defense.

....

yes, mate. you're banned from complaining. i'm really sorry but you'll need a new hobby now.

to clarify what i was actually saying- i was referring to creators working in shared universes and the implications that come from that. defalco has previously done similar things to what you accuse slott of doing. it's a big shared sandbox and writers are grown men who i hope can deal with that. you and i have been over this before, and i didn't want to bore the board by releasing our greatest hits yet again.

Except they've out and out stated they prefer angry readers. I mean come the hell on-what possible purpose did killing off the Amazing Friends serve in the wider story? It made people angry. The '90s Cartoon/Unlimited (well, they're technically different characters, but nobody told Slott that) Spidey? It made people angry. I mean that and establish the Inheritors were baddies, but I think we knew that already. Hell, technically the MC2 stuff was some of the least objectionable, since it at least factored into the continuing story. But if you don't think that all those examples weren't at least partly designed to deliberately aggravate the reader, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

tell me more about this bridge. is it high enough to throw one of peter's girlfriends off? i have some fans to aggravate.

seriously man, application of one rule across the board is your right. the implication from brevoort is that the stories need to "count". but surely if the only factor was pissing you off, they could be far more effective in achieving that?

"in this issue true believers, mc2 peter shoots himself in the head after discovering mary jane in bed with j2!" "in this issue, true believers, mc2 peter dies from auto asphyxiation after his anniversary night took a saucy turn".

if you don't believe there are other factors at play other than just "shock and awe", then i'm more than happy to share the bridge cos i'm that kind of guy.

(i'm also not going to address the death of a cartoon character from 30 years ago pissing off adult men who probably had not even thought about that version in all that time. it's too weird to even consider).

Fine, it was PART OF what set her apart from the crowd. Is that better?

i'll go with that.

Just because some stories kill off a bunch of characters and are critically acclaimed doesn't mean EVERY story needs to have a body count.

agreed. nobody is saying that is the new rule of fiction. only that death of a character in and of itself isn't worthless.

Yeah, like 616 Peter could get over Uncle Ben's death instead of bringing it up every five minutes. Or you know, he could come to terms with his Aunt finally dying-oh, wait, the first time it wasn't really her and the second he sold his marriage to Satan rather than take responsibility like an adult. If he gets to keep his Aunt around for 50 sodding years, then the justification for killing off Mayday's dad kind of loses a lot of water.

i'm not entirely sure what you're saying here, but i think you know the differences yourself without me explaining that ben's death was a catalyst for peter to become a hero, while mayday was already one. adding to that, your own assertion that she is not the neurotic guilt addict that he is brings us to a moot point.

You do realise I was actually responding to Slott, there? Anyway, considering some of his historical writing (the aforementioned killing off of characters in the run-up to Spider-Verse that served little to no narrative purpose except controversy and 'these guys are bad', which was fairly self-evident IMO-unless there was some symbolism to the death of the Amazing Friends I missed),

weirdly enough, when i first joined this board i wrote about my perceived symbolism of that scene. it was greeted with general rrrrraaaaaarrrrrrr naahhhh was cuuuute now is deeead.

I'm not sure why you brought that up, but whatever.

because it informs his stance. it doesn't assert authority, but it does let us know that he talks about this stuff for a living, which i think is a fair thing to add. if i'm discussing my car engine on a message board, i'd like to know which posters are mechanics and which ones are owners.

[Scott Taylor]

really? permanent? i suppose i shouldn't be able to laugh after the tragic death of my own father, but somehow i have.

the death of a parent is something every child eventually faces. somewhere along the time line. i agree it needs to be dealt with, but does it need to forever be an albatross around the neck? no way.

I am sorry to hear of your loss, first of all.

Somehow if my father died tragically I would cope eventually, too. As May would be expected to cope. But May did see her father killed by an inheritor while she ran away helpless with her baby brother in hr arms. Sure she saved her brother's life, but she'll always know she ran in the face of danger and her father died as a result. Just my sensibility, maybe, I think that would leave a permanent scar. Not too unlike the one Peter has about his Uncle Ben.

What I am really saying, though, is that the loss of Peter is a pretty big deal in that universe. Again, very like the loss of Uncle Ben in the 616. And it kind of ruins the whole thing that made Spider-Girl stand apart. In my opinion.

[boots]

I am sorry to hear of your loss, first of all.

cheers mate. the main difference between me and peter in this case, is that in real life, they put you in therapy to deal with this stuff. superheroes just…keep going.

Somehow if my father died tragically I would cope eventually, too. As May would be expected to cope. But May did see her father killed by an inheritor while she ran away helpless with her baby brother in hr arms. Sure she saved her brother's life, but she'll always know she ran in the face of danger and her father died as a result. Just my sensibility, maybe, I think that would leave a permanent scar. Not too unlike the one Peter has about his Uncle Ben.

totally agree there’s a scar. every person on this board has at least one.

but she had some closure: she kept her little brother safe, she pursued the inheritors for the duration of her time in spider-verse and then, when push came to shove, she did the right thing by herself and her dad.

unlike peter with uncle ben, she did everything she could and can console herself that there were no other options for her.

What I am really saying, though, is that the loss of Peter is a pretty big deal in that universe. Again, very like the loss of Uncle Ben in the 616. And it kind of ruins the whole thing that made Spider-Girl stand apart. In my opinion.

fair enough, and i’m not challenging that. i agree it will leave a big hole in her life, as big as uncle ben in 616, but the context is different.