"Spider-Island," Spider-Girl Swing Into "Secret Wars"

[Teek]

Or maybe getting Mayday into a book a lot of people are already going to be purchasing will get her in front of a large audience and perhaps, with fan feedback, you may see Mayday more in the future.

Doubtful. Particularly when the role of "Teenage alternate reality female Spider-Book" is already held by Spider-Gwen.

You can find much more glaring continuity errors in the 616 universe on any given comic on any given week.

Well, that's an entirely different discussion.

Plus Ron Frenz has basically retracted his criticism since.

I'm sure he has. Like I said, better to get paid to write a fake Spider-Girl than no Spider-Girl at all.

[jimishim12]

yuuuummmmmmy
if she dressed like that in the issues id buy each one

Looks like a Bond Girl with spiders power than a respectable empowered super female. Not a good look, you certainly wouldn't see Jess or even Cindy look like that.

[Huntsman Spider]

Looks like a Bond Girl with spiders power than a respectable empowered super female. Not a good look, you certainly wouldn't see Jess or even Cindy look like that.

Fortunately, that's just the cover. She was dressed much more sensibly in the actual Spider-Island arc when she got her spider-powers, and will probably continue being sensibly dressed in Secret Wars' Spider-Island.

[jimishim12]

Fortunately, that's just the cover. She was dressed much more sensibly in the actual Spider-Island arc when she got her spider-powers, and will probably continue being sensibly dressed in Secret Wars' Spider-Island.

I cant really tell she looked cheesy as hell posing like Peter when she had gotten the powers to beat up the mooks maybe because she has never been consistantly shown as a serious character of action IMO, MJ always came off to me as a non serious pin up model who shafts any self made womanly character for being either fan service or a satelite character around peter. I just can't take her serious even when she gets the chance to be somewhat hardcore, she's never gonna match Aunt May in being presentable like that to me when it came to proving she was cool and awesome despite her being the mom character.

[Kevinroc]

I cant really tell she looked cheesy as hell posing like Peter when she had gotten the powers to beat up the mooks maybe because she has never been consistantly shown as a serious character of action IMO, MJ always came off to me as a non serious pin up model who shafts any self made womanly character for being either fan service or a satelite character around peter. I just can't take her serious even when she gets the chance to be somewhat hardcore, she's never gonna match Aunt May in being presentable like that to me when it came to proving she was cool and awesome despite her being the mom character.

Looks like you're just looking for reasons to hate on MJ just for the sake of hating MJ. If it's not one thing, it's another.

MJ was introduced into the Spider-Man franchise through Aunt May. Aunt May wanted Peter to date MJ. Aunt May is the biggest Peter/MJ shipper there is.

[Yvonmukluk]

Looks like you're just looking for reasons to hate on MJ just for the sake of hating MJ. If it's not one thing, it's another.

MJ was introduced into the Spider-Man franchise through Aunt May. Aunt May wanted Peter to date MJ. Aunt May is the biggest Peter/MJ shipper there is.

Agreed. When Gwen (apparently) returned from the dead, May was the one to tell MJ to stand up and fight for Peter.

It's also why OMD, or rather OMIT is idiotic. May would probably have quite easily talked both of them into rescheduling the wedding. (She'd also-as a childless woman-have strong opinions on FauxMJ's 'without children, marriage is just a piece of paper' spiel-but of course the actual Mary Jane wasn't in the mood for kids in those days anyway).

[boots]

I'm sure he has. Like I said, better to get paid to write a fake Spider-Girl than no Spider-Girl at all.

i'm more a fan of putting your money where your mouth is instead of the other way around. alan moore at least attempts this. frank miller too.

for some reason a lot of fans hate marvel for chasing the bucks but forgive defalco and co for doing the same thing.

[boots]

They really didn't have to use MC2 for anything. Definitely no obligation to use a line that ever only had one successful title to its name.

i'd love to be a fly on the wall for that board room conversation .

marvel minion: "hey, so why are we pouring money into a writer, artist, colourist, letterer, printing, distribution and marketing of a book in a shrinking market when we really just hate it and its fans?"

mr marvel: "well, i feel kinda obligated. don't you guys?"

marvel minion: "...yeah. yeah i guess i feel that way too. we publish other books based on emotional whims, why not this one."

mr marvel: "but don't worry fellas, we'll only give them an issue and half to do it. then we'll burn the copyrights to the name. obligation on one hand, supreme unfairness on the other"

marvel minion: "this is the kind of thinking that makes us a market leader. excelsior."

it's so insane it might be true.

[Sardorim]

Pretty sure Spider-Island already had a Spider-Girl in the form of Anya.

[Cmbmool]

They really didn't have to use MC2 for anything. Definitely no obligation to use a line that ever only had one successful title to its name.

HEY!!!!

The MC-2 Universe is still a part of the Marvel Multiverse, and while Spider-girl is a main selling point of it all, it's still a major part of showing the Next Generation of Marvel Heroes.

Besides how else could we get Hope Pym in the movies ?

[Kevinroc]

HEY!!!!

The MC-2 Universe is still a part of the Marvel Multiverse, and while Spider-girl is a main selling point of it all, it's still a major part of showing the Next Generation of Marvel Heroes.

Besides how else could we get Hope Pym in the movies ?

Mayday Parker vs. Hope Pym. Never thought we'd be getting such a story in 2015.

[Yvonmukluk]

They really didn't have to use MC2 for anything. Definitely no obligation to use a line that ever only had one successful title to its name.

Because it's not like that title is still the longest consecutive run with a female lead in Marvel's history or anything (hell, after Wonder Woman & Supergirl, I think it's the longest in Big 2 superheroines full stop). Carol Danvers only recently got 100 solo issues over various issues, having existed since the 70s. Mayday? Did it in her first run.

You'd think Marvel might make more hay from that, but apparently not.

i'm more a fan of putting your money where your mouth is instead of the other way around. alan moore at least attempts this. frank miller too.

for some reason a lot of fans hate marvel for chasing the bucks but forgive defalco and co for doing the same thing.

Th difference is that Marvel is a business (& owned by Disney), while DeFalco & Frenz are drawing towards the end of their careers and the work isn't coming like it used to (which I find baffling-say what you will about their style, they're at least consistent-it baffles me why Frenz in particular doesn't get more work, since he can meet deadlines consistently-and I'll take him over Greg Land any day). So I can forgive them for taking work when it comes.

And at the same time, they're trying to salvage their baby. They've quite clearly seen what happens when they let somebody else take the reins, and this is likely the end of the line for Mayday, so why wouldn't they want to be the one to wrap her up story for good? They might (depending on how tightly editorial restricts them) be able to mitigate some of the damage. And if not? Well they already set up their narrative escape hatch in advance.

But then they did that once already & Slott still came in & wrecked up the place.

[Pav]

So what, they have to trick people into reading MC2 stories?

Irrational perception; likely not the reality.

It honestly feels like Marvel's only using her out of obligation at this point.

Irrational perception; likely not the reality.

That's a issue and a half of a regular issue to wrap up an entire universe (that lasted for over a decade-albeit on the basis of one book, but that's pretty much what Ultimate U's been doing the last few months) and close the book on a character that still has the longest consecutive run for a solo Supeheroine in Marvel's history. That's pretty unfair considering the wider significance.

You keep complaining that Slott ruined a "perfectly good ending" with this new story, so what makes you think THIS will be the final story about Mayday? Obviously there are people at Marvel who find the character worth using, and that will likely continue into the future, even if she never becomes totally mainstream. Your perception is irrational and likely not the reality.

It feels like they churned this out to shut the fans up more than anything

Irrational perception; without a doubt, this is definitely not the reality.

-Pav, who has blinded by his emotions before too...


...just not about comic books...



...mostly about women...

[boots]

Th difference is that Marvel is a business (& owned by Disney), while DeFalco & Frenz are drawing towards the end of their careers and the work isn't coming like it used to (which I find baffling-say what you will about their style, they're at least consistent-it baffles me why Frenz in particular doesn't get more work, since he can meet deadlines consistently-and I'll take him over Greg Land any day). So I can forgive them for taking work when it comes.

i’m fond of their stuff, but it’s just not “in vogue”. consistency is not always the most valued reason for hiring a person. in any job, but especially in creative/entertainment industries.

And at the same time, they're trying to salvage their baby. They've quite clearly seen what happens when they let somebody else take the reins, and this is likely the end of the line for Mayday, so why wouldn't they want to be the one to wrap her up story for good? They might (depending on how tightly editorial restricts them) be able to mitigate some of the damage. And if not? Well they already set up their narrative escape hatch in advance.

to me, it’s pretty clear. if you come out guns blazing like frenz did, you stick to your guns. miller does and moore does. it’s the harder choice, sure. but it’s the one with integrity. i’m not a fan of back peddling.

if defalco has already proven to his fans (as some think) that this mayday is not his version, what has he got to further to prove? Surely it just adds to the problem rather than mitigating anything. to paraphrase miller “marvel have someone running around with elektra’s name and costume, but it can’t be her, because i killed her”.

we don’t truly know the reason why frenz and defalco are working on this, and why frenz has suddenly fallen silent on his criticism. it could be because they are basically “company men” after all or it could be a genuine change of heart.

my issue isn’t with deflaco and frenz themselves, but the fan’s speculative rationale for it. strikes me as spineless.

[Yvonmukluk]

Irrational perception; likely not the reality.
Irrational perception; likely not the reality.

Gee, I wish I could dismiss arguments in five words without having to engage with them. Could you explain why you think my perceptions are 'irrational'?

You keep complaining that Slott ruined a "perfectly good ending" with this new story, so what makes you think THIS will be the final story about Mayday? Obviously there are people at Marvel who find the character worth using, and that will likely continue into the future, even if she never becomes totally mainstream. Your perception is irrational and likely not the reality.

There's pretty much only two people who want to use the character on her own merits, and that's DeFalco & Frenz (well three if you count Sal Buscema). Otherwise, why did they wait 5 years to bring her back? Keep in mind that this was an event billed as 'every Spider-Man ever' (there's that 'obligation'-she's probably the most successful Spider-Man comics spinoff after Ultimate & 2099 so she had be in the book, and they were naturally obligated to bring in her original creative team in some capacity to appeal to her fans-even soliciting their participation before actually talking to them about it). They used her because otherwise a small but vocal fanbase probably would have been asking 'where's Mayday?', just like people would have been asking about the Amazing Friends if they'd been absent. And then they used her as trauma fodder to serve as fuel for the outrage bus. They didn't find Spider-Girl worth using in her own right, just as a means to an end.

Irrational perception; without a doubt, this is definitely not the reality.

Well according to Slott himself until they got fan feedback, there was no plans for Spider-Girl or MC2 in Secret Wars (which raises the question why A-Next were in the teaser image if nothing was planned, but whatever). So the Slott status quo was meant to be either the end of the road or 'the new normal'-which as I'll go into below, isn't really conducive for telling future stories with the character. So yeah, they threw out some token Spider-Girl appearances, and then gave her a pat 'happy' ending and said 'are you happy now'?

-Pav, who has blinded by his emotions before too...

...just not about comic books...

...mostly about women...

I think I was just insulted.

i’m fond of their stuff, but it’s just not “in vogue”. consistency is not always the most valued reason for hiring a person. in any job, but especially in creative/entertainment industries.

Well it hasn't stopped Greg Land finding work despite his infamous tracing habits.

to me, it’s pretty clear. if you come out guns blazing like frenz did, you stick to your guns. miller does and moore does. it’s the harder choice, sure. but it’s the one with integrity. i’m not a fan of back peddling.

if defalco has already proven to his fans (as some think) that this mayday is not his version, what has he got to further to prove? Surely it just adds to the problem rather than mitigating anything. to paraphrase miller “marvel have someone running around with elektra’s name and costume, but it can’t be her, because i killed her”.

Or perhaps they're trying to perform damage control? because let's be honest, where she is right now is not conducive for future stories, unlike the status quo as of 'Spider-Girl:The End'.
Let's see:
1) She lost her costume. She's been wearing the Ben Reilly suit for at this point longer then Ben did. It's hers. Even Marvel concede that, since it's what she's wearing in the MC2 variant cover for 'Secret Wars' (apparently on Nick Lowe's orders). But instead of the visually distinct costume that while obviously having ties to the Spidey most people know an love, has its own visual identity, she's now saddled with 'Spider-Man costume, Rule 63 edition'. That's not exactly going to set her apart now, is it?
2) She lost her name. Now Marvel's clearl established that, unless it's an Ultimate title, they operate on Highlander rules. You don't see two titles on the stands with (barring prefixes) the same title but starring different characters. They wrapped up Mayday's story before launching Anya's title, after all. I somehow doubt they're planning on cancelling the new Spider-Woman title (although I'll admit I've not been following its progress so it could be on the verge of cancellation for all I know) after they went to the trouble of 'Batgirling' her costume. Whereas Mayday was and is still the most pre-eminent Spider-Girl-despite what Anya said in ASM #15, her & Mayday are the only two Spider-Girls (bar one-off alternate universe appearances) in Marvel, and Mayday was clearly the most successful. After all, the infamously bad Spider-Girl Halloween costume had Mayday on the front, not Anya. So ultimately changing Mayday's name was counterproductive if they want to give her her own book again (outside of shoving her into the Spider-Verse Secret Wars book as was apparently was the original plan).
3) She lost her father. He was in fact one of the key supporting cast members of the book, if not the most important. Now I realise I'm apparently in the minority here, but I don't see why he had to die. I can see why you could have May THINK he was dead, like her mother & Wes, and behave accordingly, but why actually have him killed off? I realise the idea was that Ben would step into the 'father figure' role, but why couldn't they both be around? Hell, that'd serve both as making the ending have extra pathos (as Ben gets to meet a version of his nephew who lived a long and happy life and started his own family) and serve as potential fuel for drama in future stories (as Peter winds up comparing Spider-Ben to the idealised image of Uncle Ben he's built up over 20+ years and finding they don't add up-or Peter & Ben giving Mayday conflicting advice-who does she listen to?). At the same time, several recent teen hero books (Nova, Ms. Marvel) have loving & supportive families and seem to be doing well, and it's not like killing off parents is some kind of magic bullet that makes teen books sell (Anya's run of Spider-Girl killed off her dad and didn't really do her book any favours). Honestly, if you were going to kill him off, a big dumb crossover wasn't the place to do it. It should have happened in Mayday's own book, at the hands of her own creative team (whether it be Tom & Ron or someone else-they didn't kill off Gwen Stacy in a crossover, did they? They didn't kill off Captain America in Civil War, that was ultimately Brubaker's own call. While Peter's unmasking was editorially driven because gotta annul that marriage).

Now I'm not saying that Marvel was deliberately attempting to bury a character they frankly can't really be bothered with (they could just keep not publishing Spider-Girl books for that), but wrapping things up the way they did seems wasteful and counterproductive. If you're going to reconfigure a character like that, it's usually customary to have a plan of where to go next, not just immediately end the story there and leave someone else to pick up the pieces if they want to do something with the character in future.

Considering that she instead gets put in a specific MC2 story, it's possible that Marvel decided 'what the hell, might as well reset her to Factory Default' either because it costs nothing for them to change her back if this is the end of MC2, or because it's be simpler if they want to tell stories with her in future if they don't have to deal with points 1), 2) & possibly 3). If Marvel offered them the chance to do that, I'm sure they'd take it.

we don’t truly know the reason why frenz and defalco are working on this, and why frenz has suddenly fallen silent on his criticism. it could be because they are basically “company men” after all or it could be a genuine change of heart.

my issue isn’t with deflaco and frenz themselves, but the fan’s speculative rationale for it. strikes me as spineless.

Look, Spider-Girl was, one way or another, being put out to pasture with Spider-Verse, as far as Frenz & DeFalco knew. Hell, they weren't even told they were writing a tie-in till solicitations dropped, and even then they were told in advance 'here's the endgame we've written-now write something that leads up to that.' They're professionals-they're not going to burn their bridges and outright contradict the main story, especially since Slott's the big dog in the Spider-Office (although he obviously is still lower on the totem pole than Bendis, hence why Miles basically stayed as far away from the main plot as possible). They clearly felt it was contradictory to their own idea of where the character would end up, so they left the fans enough reasonable doubt to say 'This is a different Spider-Girl, the MC2 version is perfectly fine', aided by the pre-existing continuity gaffes. But that isn't the official Marvel story, any more than the current Howard the Duck is actually a clone of the real deal who is living in a different universe as Leonard, so it's not like they can ever write that Spider-Girl ever again. But at least this way, they can try and fix the 'official' version (aka the version that will appear in future comics, barring reboot or retcon) to the best of their abilities. Compare when they let Adam Beechen try and fix Cassandra Cain after the character assassination he himself did in Robin-when he admitted he'd not actually done much research on the character and made a bunch of cock-ups in the process. That 'repair job' hardly won back the fans and arguably made things worse.