"Spider-Island," Spider-Girl Swing Into "Secret Wars"

[cyberhubbs]

Because it's not like that title is still the longest consecutive run with a female lead in Marvel's history or anything (hell, after Wonder Woman & Supergirl, I think it's the longest in Big 2 superheroines full stop). Carol Danvers only recently got 100 solo issues over various issues, having existed since the 70s. Mayday? Did it in her first run.

You'd think Marvel might make more hay from that, but apparently not.

Which makes it the line's only successful title. Doesn't obligate them to do anything with the MC2 or even Spider-Girl, though. If they publish something from that universe, it's because they want to.

[Dan Slott]

Look, Spider-Girl was, one way or another, being put out to pasture with Spider-Verse...

They're professionals-they're not going to burn their bridges and outright contradict the main story, especially since Slott's the big dog in the Spider-Office (although he obviously is still lower on the totem pole than Bendis, hence why Miles basically stayed as far away from the main plot as possible). They clearly felt...

There are opinions you have about what you've actually read-- and that's great. Those are your opinions and great for message board discussions.

And then there are your opinions about what creators were feeling and thinking while they were writing something-- or why they chose to take an assignment-- or any other number of ideas about what you think were in their hearts, minds, and souls.

And that's looney tunes.
You really haven't the foggiest why someone chose to do x, y, or z.
You really don't.

I've read things you've said here and on other threads where you've taken those leaps, and there are many cases where I absolutely know you are 100% wrong. Not even a chance of shading-- just flat-out wrong.

And a lot of that also applies for the what-you-think-Marvel-was-planning assumptions you've made as well.

[Yvonmukluk]

There are opinions you have about what you've actually read-- and that's great. Those are your opinions and great for message board discussions.

And then there are your opinions about what creators were feeling and thinking while they were writing something-- or why they chose to take an assignment-- or any other number of ideas about what you think were in their hearts, minds, and souls.

And that's looney tunes.
You really haven't the foggiest why someone chose to do x, y, or z.
You really don't.

I've read things you've said here and on other threads where you've taken those leaps, and there are many cases where I absolutely know you are 100% wrong. Not even a chance of shading-- just flat-out wrong.

And a lot of that also applies for the what-you-think-Marvel-was-planning assumptions you've made as well.

Well I'll concede I'm operating from conjecture and operating from what information I do know. I'd be interested to hear what precisely I'm wrong about, though.

But let's discuss what IS known.

I know Ron Frenz went on record as disliking what you did with Mayday and her family back in ASM #8. I'll note that although it emerged MJ survived Peter remains dead and so most of his criticisms on that front remain valid.

I do know that DeFalco & Frenz weren't actually told they were writing a Spider-Verse tie-in until after Solicitations were announced for it, which strikes me as rather unprofessional on Marvel's part-you'd think they'd confirm the talent before making the announcement.

I know they were told to use Uncle Ben, presumably as a means to set up your importing him into MC2, albeit they were otherwise given free reign.

I know they were told the endgame in advance, and that Mayday was apparently meant to be in the Spider-Verse Secret Wars book until editorial decided otherwise.

I know that apparently it was Spider-Verse that lead to the MC2 storyline, although whether it was fanmail in response to the story or something else that kicked it off remains unclear.

I also know that you changed up a great deal of Spider-Girl's established character for what I'm sure made sense to you narratively. However, I believe these changes undermined what made her unique in the the first place. We lost the costume that apparently made her 'Instantly Recognizable' in favour of recycling the one we see in Amazing Spider-Man every month, the name that she was the most prominent bearer of in favour of making her the fourth heroic Spider-Woman to bear the name (fifth if you count Spider-Gwen), whilst killing Peter isn't exactly narratively daring (plus Uncle Ben, while a good justification for exposition, would likely prove confusing to new readers wondering how Spider-Man's daughter is hanging around with his Uncle who died in her father's origin story)-dead parents are cliche at this point. Hell, Spider-Girl was ahead of the curve for teen hero books with a stable home life (Jaime Reyes as Blue Beetle, Sam Alexander as Nova, Ms. Marvel). I just don't see how any of these changes will actually make Mayday any more viable as a character then she was before, and might prove detrimental in the long run.

But I trust that DeFalco & Frenz will make the best of a bad situation and try to do the character justice.

[boots]

Well it hasn't stopped Greg Land finding work despite his infamous tracing habits.

mm. i’m not a fan of pulling out one example to prove a generic point, especially when it’s obvious that greg land isn’t the standard across the board of modern comics. or is that what you’re trying to say?

Or perhaps they're trying to perform damage control? because let's be honest, where she is right now is not conducive for future stories, unlike the status quo as of 'Spider-Girl:The End'.

nah, let’s actually be honest: you can’t see how they’re conducive to future stories. more than a few on this board can. dan slot can. tom defalco can. marvel can. we’ll have to wait and see if all this panic is worthwhile.

and it’s still compromise, the way you describe it. whether it’s for money or some sort of perceived stain on the character.

i have a feeling that if we took defalco’s and frenz’s names out of this scenario that you’re attempting to rationalise on their behalf and put say…hmmm slott and greg land in there instead that you wouldn’t be quite so quick to come to their defense. it’s because some of your favs have decided to tow the company line and you want to support them. that’s fine and dandy.

i snipped the rest of what you wrote, because it’s old, old ground that you’ve trodden well.

and really, if marvel were so intent on destroying mayday’s character, surely they could have given her to someone else to write? defalco has had more than enough chances, why give him another one, if not in good faith?

it’s not always us vs them. like you though, i have faith in defalco’s professionalism and maturity (just not in the way you do).


"We used to get this horrible hate mail," DeFalco says. "People would say, 'I hate this book! You don't understand the characters! They shouldn't be upset all the time!' And every month, sales rose."


Tom DeFalco: "Hardcore fans didn't like our FF. They named me "The Evil One" and we used to get tons of hate mail. Why didn't you fire me?
Ralph Macchio: "Because the sales kept going up every month! Fantastic Four became one of Marvel's best-selling titles on the mass-market newsstands while you and Paul were on it."


“The fans hated the idea of changing Spidey’s costume,” DeFalco says. “In those days, fans actually wrote letters and we were deluged with hate mail from our fans—all of who were saying they would never buy another Marvel or Spider-Man comic again. The mail scared our sales department and Jim Shooter so much that Jim came in and insisted that I bring back Spidey’s original costume [in] AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #253. I argued that we had to keep the black costume at least until he got it in SECRET WARS #8. Jim eventually agreed with my plan and approved my storyline.”

i see a few parallels...

[boots]

Well I'll concede I'm operating from conjecture and operating from what information I do know. I'd be interested to hear what precisely I'm wrong about, though.

But I trust that DeFalco & Frenz will make the best of a bad situation and try to do the character justice.

it’s conjecture on all our parts (except perhaps dan slott’s).

it’s entirely possible that the original spider-girl team are burning with white hot righteous lava in their bellies as they arise to undo the injustices forced upon the mc2…but do you think it’s also possible that they understand they are working on a company owned property in a shared universe and are actually fine taking the baton handed to them? that they could see it as a positive thing with future possibilities, rather than a last stand?

[comicscollector]

I liked the Spider Island event and i am a fan of the Ron Frenz and Sal Buscema art,so i am looking forward to read this.

[Mister Mets]

It'll be interesting to see how this universe went differently.

[Sardorim]

So, is Anya not Spider-Girl in Spider-Island?

[Huntsman Spider]

So, is Anya not Spider-Girl in Spider-Island?

That is a good point. There should be a mention of her in Secret Wars' alternate Spider-Island, but the Spider-Girl everyone seemed to be talking about was Mayday from MC2, now calling herself Spider-Woman in the aftermath of Spider-Verse.

[Sardorim]

She was even in the real Spider-Island event...

[Probalus]

She was even in the real Spider-Island event...

And she could be dead like Peter is in this one, for all we know.

[Kevinroc]

And she could be dead like Peter is in this one, for all we know.

Is Spider-Island Peter confirmed dead? I thought it was just confirmed that he was MIA.

[Huntsman Spider]

Is Spider-Island Peter confirmed dead? I thought it was just confirmed that he was MIA.

He's been kidnapped by the Queen's minions and Flash-Venom and Spider-MJ are staging a rescue attempt. That's the basic plot, though it could be easily subverted by the revelation that either Peter has been dead all along or irrevocably converted into the Queen's true Spider-King, forcing a mercy kill on the part of either Flash or Mary Jane because they know the person they love/admire the most wouldn't be able to live with himself being twisted into a tool of evil.

[John Ossie]

He's been kidnapped by the Queen's minions and Flash-Venom and Spider-MJ are staging a rescue attempt. That's the basic plot, though it could be easily subverted by the revelation that either Peter has been dead all along or irrevocably converted into the Queen's true Spider-King, forcing a mercy kill on the part of either Flash or Mary Jane because they know the person they love/admire the most wouldn't be able to live with himself being twisted into a tool of evil.

If there was a ''mercy kill'' in the way you mention Huntsman Spider, it'd most likely be MJ I think, due to the drama of killing the man she loves and all that.

[Huntsman Spider]

If there was a ''mercy kill'' in the way you mention Huntsman Spider, it'd most likely be MJ I think, due to the drama of killing the man she loves and all that.

Very good point, John Ossie.