"All-New, All-Different" Marvel Comics or "All-Derivative, All-Rehashed" Marvel Comics?

[dragonmp93]

And there's a lot of quality books that go nowhere because there's no buzz.

And then there are books that go downhill once the buzz is gone.............................................. .

[yet another]

Majority of Xmen solos do bad, or get axed later.

Wolverine seems to be the only one who don't get axed when Alive. I don't really follow Magentos sales though, does that good?

Pretty well compared to the other three X-solos.

You can check the last months numbers here: http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...5/2015-02.html

[cyberhubbs]

And then there are books that go downhill once the buzz is gone.............................................. .

Makes sense. It's not just enough to make a quality book. You need people talking about it to drum up interest so folks are willing to make the trek to the store.

[Darkspellmaster]

I believe Wilson's Ms. Marvel quality is intrinsically related with how good and a new voice Wilson is to the Marvel Universe. Just like BKV's Runaways back then. What is funny is that both Miles Morales and Sam Alexander were created by two writers that we can't call it as "fresh and new talent" in the Marvel Universe. Silk and Spider-Gwen found their audiences because people demanded and people demanded because those are fresh family books for Spider-Man. The problem with the "diversity through legacy" is two fold: it's forced because there's not an actual demand for that to happen and those creating these stories aren't fresh and new voices in the Marvel Universe anymore. I think I've found out why so many people these characters feel like gimmicks, it's because the guys creating them actually can't fully understand what these characters are about.

*reads, pauses* -_- New voice with Brian K? Uh....not to burst your bubble but he was writing for marvel way back in 1997 on Cable. He's been around for a while, so saying that he's a new voice isn't true. Ms. Wilson is new to Marvel but has been around writing for a while now, so that's nothing new. As for Brian and Jeph, both are strong writers when they want to be. Jeph can write rather well when it comes to characters and situations, the Superman/Batman book spun out of his three part story where Lois and Bruce teamed up to deal with her father. It was not only very interesting but also really funny and used her in ways that writers hadn't in a long while. Brian's teen voice actually comes from sitting around and listening to teens talk, he even stated this in an interview back in Wizard when U.Spiderman was just coming out. It was kind of interesting because he would take notes about what slang they were using, how they were using it, and how to incorporate that into the book.

Silk, is...I don't know what Silk is. It's a good book but like Alpha it was created as "New Idea" and pawned off to another writer to make it work. Spider-Gwen came out of left field because the Gwen Stacy fans were the ones that demanded it, most readers I knew were like "okay it's gwen as spider-girl". They aren't 100% family books, they're regular books. Gwen may be more teen, but it's no where near like May Day's book was on the Family friendly level.

Actually in some cases there is a demand though it's a silent one. Barry Allen's death happened because as far as sales were going at the time people were more invested in Wally, so out Barry went and in came wally, who lasted a damn long time before Barry retook the role. By the way he took the role from Jay who was the first. There's nothing wrong with the idea of passing on the torch to a different character that takes on the mantle. Logical steps in fictional serialization needs to happen for the stories to continue. Brian and Jeph are both screen writers with some damn good stories under their belts, I think they have a pretty good grasp of how characterization works. Sorry if this seems hostile but as someone who does write saying that "Fresh voices" are the key to things isn't true. Voices need to mature and grow and the only way that happens is if the writer can actually move forward with the character. Kamala is a great character but one of the things I keep hearing is "She reminds me of Peter parker when he was starting out." and that was kind of the point of it.

[Darkspellmaster]

Makes sense. It's not just enough to make a quality book. You need people talking about it to drum up interest so folks are willing to make the trek to the store.

Exactly, the more people talk the more people will go see what the noise is about. That's pretty much how it's always been with published works.

[Reviresco]

*reads, pauses* -_- New voice with Brian K? Uh....not to burst your bubble but he was writing for marvel way back in 1997 on Cable. He's been around for a while, so saying that he's a new voice isn't true. Ms. Wilson is new to Marvel but has been around writing for a while now, so that's nothing new.

Don't punch holes in Zauri's declarations with inconsequential details like facts. It doesn't matter that BKV is about the same age as Jason Aaron, or Bendis is actually younger than Joss Whedon. BKV and Whedon are fresh, young and new voices!

[Taral-DLOS]

*reads, pauses* -_- New voice with Brian K? Uh....not to burst your bubble but he was writing for marvel way back in 1997 on Cable. He's been around for a while, so saying that he's a new voice isn't true. Ms. Wilson is new to Marvel but has been around writing for a while now, so that's nothing new.

Admittedly though, Brian K. Vaughn was new-ish when he started Runaways. I think that's what the poster was going for when he said "Just like BKV's Runaways back then." I'd say that when you start in 1997, 2003 is still reasonably new.

[Reviresco]

Admittedly though, Brian K. Vaughn was new-ish when he started Runaways. I think that's what the poster was going for when he said "Just like BKV's Runaways back then." I'd say that when you start in 1997, 2003 is still reasonably new.

So about six years 'new?' Again, that's very similar to Jason Aaron, who started at Marvel around 2008 with Get Mystique, IIRC ... so he's now been 'new' 6, going on 7 years.

[LASERlips]

The problem with the "diversity through legacy" is two fold: it's forced because there's not an actual demand for that to happen and those creating these stories aren't fresh and new voices in the Marvel Universe anymore. I think I've found out why so many people these characters feel like gimmicks, it's because the guys creating them actually can't fully understand what these characters are about.

Ok, first of all, who are these so many people that think these characters are gimmicks? Are there really so many? In this thread alone I think I count a minority (to be clear, I am speaking numerically). Also, who cares as long as the book is good? The audience is ever-shifting.

And who are you to say that the writers don't understand what the character is about? Are you the editor? Are you a writer?

The character is about whatever the current creative team wants it to be. Period. It has always been this way. Batman used to kill. After that he was campy and goofy and most decidedly not a dark knight. Peter Parker used to be happily married. The Flash used to be Jay Garrick, then Barry Allen, then Wally West, now Barry Allen again.

It gets even trickier. When you say "what these characters are about", to what are you referring? Are you talking about Peter Parker? Or Spider-Man? Do you really mean books when you say characters? Because Peter Parker has certain things going on depending on what year and decade it is, but if we're talking about Spider-Man, or a Spider-Man book and its role in the medium, then there are only a few very very basic requirements that Miles Morales more than meets.

Miles Morales: Young every-man. Responsible. Struggles to balance his private and social obligations with his superheroics. Pokes fun at the bad guys as he kicks them in the face. Spider powers.

Yup, seems like a Spider-Man book to me!

Kamala Khan: Strong female lead. Overcomes challenges both as a person and as a hero while also overcoming the meta-tropes that have historically damaged female characters. Role model and inspiration.

Seems like a pretty good Ms. Marvel.

Carol Danvers: Kree powers. More than just a placeholder for the rights to a name. See above.

Sure, there are some bad examples of legacy characters too, but the premise isn't universally bad. I, for one, welcome a new Spider-Man, and want to see him react to all the craziness with his new young eyes. I know some others would prefer to watch Peter Parker spin on his Hamster Wheel of Parker Luck for another 50 years, but not I.

Notice I haven't mentioned skin color or race in these descriptions. You say diversity is "forced" and a "gimmick". I say the true gimmick is whenever Marvel feels they have to force Peter Parker to be young and single and relevant again and again and again. I'm so ready for a fresh face. Parker has too much baggage. Let Miles earn his own baggage for a couple decades, then maybe switch them back. There is precedent (at DC).