Why Wouldn't Hawkeye Make A Good Captain America?

[jackolover]

Clint Barton was a criminal, and though reformed and proves himself to be a great Avenger, he still has some flaws to his character, and, his body isn't as durable as Steve Rogers. I question Bartons organising ability. When it came time to do something about Norman Osborn, Barton went in full guns blazing with no plan. He has a major chip on his shoulder and is full of self doubt. As a technician, Clint Barton has great gifts, and can turn a battle. But as a leader even his former wife, Mockingbird, chides Clint for being stupid, and that's not what is needed as a Captain America. Even when Fury handed Barton Caps shield, he rejected it, maybe because of his own self doubt, but I feel he knew himself that the role didn't fit him.

Are any proponents out there that have any strong arguments for Clint Barton as Captain America? His stint as leader of the TBolts? Does that show any leadership abilities? I found his leadership in TBolts to be mainly reconciliatory, to try to hold the team together, rather than show strong aggressive leadership. He was a bandaid rather than a dictator. For instance, why would Tony Stark think Hawkeye would make a good Captain America? Tony had seen Bucky Barnes, but Tony picked Hawkeye. It wasn't till Tony got Steves letter that Tony gave the shield to Bucky.

[Of Atlantis]

For the sake of playing Devil's advocate, I'll make a case for Barton.

Despite being a hothead, he has a definitive moral code and a no-kill policy. I'd even go so far as to say his morals stand closest to Captain America's. He's definitely more impulsive and less patriotic, but his character still embodies the American Dream. He was an orphan who could just as easily been led astray to a life of crime, but decided not to. It's definitely true that Clint's leadership of the Thunderbolts was more of a bandaid than anything but he did earn respect, and keep in mind Cap's leadership of the Quirky Quartet provides parallels. He would also lead the West Coast Avengers as well. While not commanding as much respect as Rogers due to his service for his country and general reputation, he's been a mainstay Avenger almost since the beginning and has been a trusted ally, one of the best truly. If Steve is the head of the Avengers, Clint would definitely be the heart. He's stood among Gods, geniuses, war heroes, mages and mutants and has still more than proven his worth among them.

As far as physical ability, he's no less physically capable than Bucky or Sam are. He's not as deadly or able to fly, but I would definitely listen to arguments that he could throw the shield a lot more efficiently thanks to his own special abilities.

And just to make things clear, I personally don't consider anything post-Fallen Son to be a dignified portrayal of Clint Barton's character. Bendis did not do the character anything close to justice and went against every grain, while Fraction's portrayal is often a grounded, satirical portrayal of Clint's character, more entertaining than anything else.

[jackolover]

For the sake of playing Devil's advocate, I'll make a case for Barton.

Despite being a hothead, he has a definitive moral code and a no-kill policy. I'd even go so far as to say his morals stand closest to Captain America's. He's definitely more impulsive and less patriotic, but his character still embodies the American Dream. He was an orphan who could just as easily been led astray to a life of crime, but decided not to. It's definitely true that Clint's leadership of the Thunderbolts was more of a bandaid than anything but he did earn respect, and keep in mind Cap's leadership of the Quirky Quartet provides parallels. He would also lead the West Coast Avengers as well. While not commanding as much respect as Rogers due to his service for his country and general reputation, he's been a mainstay Avenger almost since the beginning and has been a trusted ally, one of the best truly. If Steve is the head of the Avengers, Clint would definitely be the heart. He's stood among Gods, geniuses, war heroes, mages and mutants and has still more than proven his worth among them.

As far as physical ability, he's no less physically capable than Bucky or Sam are. He's not as deadly or able to fly, but I would definitely listen to arguments that he could throw the shield a lot more efficiently thanks to his own special abilities.

And just to make things clear, I personally don't consider anything post-Fallen Son to be a dignified portrayal of Clint Barton's character. Bendis did not do the character anything close to justice and went against every grain, while Fraction's portrayal is often a grounded, satirical portrayal of Clint's character, more entertaining than anything else.

It's funny you should say Bendis' portrayal of Clint Barton did not do Clint justice. In one respect in my example above Clint is impulsive as you said. But on the level of leadership, Bendis showed a Clint Barton, who was an instant leader in the New Avengers, who took the front lead of going on TV to express the case of the heroes and to put the attack on Norman Osborn. Luke or Bucky wouldn't have done that. And on other occasions, Clint voiced the first response to a challenge and made it the plan of attack. In some ways, Clint was a stronger leader than Luke in those days, and Luke was ready to take the secondary role, without getting his feelings hurt. In a few cases the NA asked Clint the official Avengers rules on a matter, because he was the longest serving Avenger. In a group of basically heroes for hire and street level, (except Stephen Strange), Clint Barton was the Avenger. When Hawkeye was re absorbed into the main Avengers team in Heroic Age, he fell back into a supportive role once again, and back with his usual archers credentials.

[cyberhubbs]

I seem to remember an old comic, back when Cap got canceled and pre-Avengers where Clinton ran around in the costume for an issue or two. Pretty sure Stan Lee wrote it.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

UGH! Stop turning characters into other legacies! Let characters define themselves! The more we keep piggie backing the same franchises, the more they'll be doomed when everyone is sick of them!

[KurtW95]

UGH! Stop turning characters into other legacies! Let characters define themselves!

That's what I keep saying! A lot of these characters have their own identities before they're "promoted." Some people may think that this makes them more important, but in reality it takes away they're uniqueness and people who are fans of the original character they're replacing begin to resent them.

[MajorHoy]

NEXT:
Why wouldn't Odinson make a good Captain America while Fem-Thor is swinging the hammer?

[Songbird/Diamondback]

That's what I keep saying! A lot of these characters have their own identities before they're "promoted." Some people may think that this makes them more important, but in reality it takes away they're uniqueness and people who are fans of the original character they're replacing begin to resent them.

Watch when Infinity Wars Part 2 is done and Cap, Thor and Iron Man just fade away from comics!

[hawkeyefan]

Because it'd be a step down for him.

[Darth Phoenix]

It could make a really fun car crash of a story watching how he would try to pull it off.

[electr1cgoblin]

That's what I keep saying! A lot of these characters have their own identities before they're "promoted." Some people may think that this makes them more important, but in reality it takes away they're uniqueness and people who are fans of the original character they're replacing begin to resent them.

*applause"

[tg1982]

For the sake of playing Devil's advocate, I'll make a case for Barton.

Despite being a hothead, he has a definitive moral code and a no-kill policy. I'd even go so far as to say his morals stand closest to Captain America's. He's definitely more impulsive and less patriotic, but his character still embodies the American Dream. He was an orphan who could just as easily been led astray to a life of crime, but decided not to. It's definitely true that Clint's leadership of the Thunderbolts was more of a bandaid than anything but he did earn respect, and keep in mind Cap's leadership of the Quirky Quartet provides parallels. He would also lead the West Coast Avengers as well. While not commanding as much respect as Rogers due to his service for his country and general reputation, he's been a mainstay Avenger almost since the beginning and has been a trusted ally, one of the best truly. If Steve is the head of the Avengers, Clint would definitely be the heart. He's stood among Gods, geniuses, war heroes, mages and mutants and has still more than proven his worth among them.

As far as physical ability, he's no less physically capable than Bucky or Sam are. He's not as deadly or able to fly, but I would definitely listen to arguments that he could throw the shield a lot more efficiently thanks to his own special abilities.

And just to make things clear, I personally don't consider anything post-Fallen Son to be a dignified portrayal of Clint Barton's character. Bendis did not do the character anything close to justice and went against every grain, while Fraction's portrayal is often a grounded, satirical portrayal of Clint's character, more entertaining than anything else.

I agree with you. I also think that he'd be best suited to utilize the shield (at least in terms of throwing) closest to the ability of Steve Rogers. All the other points you made I agree with as well.

NEXT:
Why wouldn't Odinson make a good Captain America while Fem-Thor is swinging the hammer?

Actually, that could work too. Thor spends a lot of time on Earth, especially in the U.S., there could be an immigrant story that could come from this.

Because it'd be a step down for him.

Eventually when he went back to being Hawkeye. Buzzinga!


And for the people getting upset about this thread, it's just a fun thing to do. Relax.

[Captain M]

Might as well make Wasp , Ant-Woman while we're at it. Since Ant-Man will be popular thanks to the movie.

[Of Atlantis]

It's funny you should say Bendis' portrayal of Clint Barton did not do Clint justice. In one respect in my example above Clint is impulsive as you said. But on the level of leadership, Bendis showed a Clint Barton, who was an instant leader in the New Avengers, who took the front lead of going on TV to express the case of the heroes and to put the attack on Norman Osborn. Luke or Bucky wouldn't have done that. And on other occasions, Clint voiced the first response to a challenge and made it the plan of attack. In some ways, Clint was a stronger leader than Luke in those days, and Luke was ready to take the secondary role, without getting his feelings hurt. In a few cases the NA asked Clint the official Avengers rules on a matter, because he was the longest serving Avenger. In a group of basically heroes for hire and street level, (except Stephen Strange), Clint Barton was the Avenger. When Hawkeye was re absorbed into the main Avengers team in Heroic Age, he fell back into a supportive role once again, and back with his usual archers credentials.

Bendis's portrayal of Clint was less impulsive and more erratic imo. I don't think he knew what to do with the character. I mean, he put him in a ninja suit. He turned him into a bloodthirsty savage. Worst portrayal of Clint I've read ever. While Clint going on tv and blasting Osborn is well within his character, it's far from the things that defined him during Bendis's run. Even when the team was discussing leadership, Clint kind of just looked at Carol and was like "uh I don't want to, but I'll do it."

It's just that everything up to Dissassembled could make a case for him becoming a good Captain America replacement, and everything after would make a case against it.

And for the people getting upset about this thread, it's just a fun thing to do. Relax.

Tensions are so high on these boards these days.

It's just a hypothetical thread.

[hawkeyefan]

Bendis's portrayal of Clint was less impulsive and more erratic imo. I don't think he knew what to do with the character. I mean, he put him in a ninja suit. He turned him into a bloodthirsty savage. Worst portrayal of Clint I've read ever. While Clint going on tv and blasting Osborn is well within his character, it's far from the things that defined him during Bendis's run. Even when the team was discussing leadership, Clint kind of just looked at Carol and was like "uh I don't want to, but I'll do it."

It's just that everything up to Dissassembled could make a case for him becoming a good Captain America replacement, and everything after would make a case against it.



Tensions are so high on these boards these days.

It's just a hypothetical thread.

I didn't mind Bendis's portrayal of him because I think we were supposed to see it as Clint at his lowest. It certainly was erratic, but I think it was supposed to be. And I think that the fact that the renegade Avengers still turned to him to be a leader says a lot....both about him and about the state of the team.

I wasn't a huge fan of everything Bendis did, but overall I looked at it as Clint at his lowest and slowly crawling his way back.

The issue of Fallen Son or whatever that mini was called where Dtark offers Clint the shield sums it up perfectly, I think. Clint actually would be well suited to the job. But he's his own man more so than any of the other stand-ins have been.