"All-New, All-Different" Marvel Comics or "All-Derivative, All-Rehashed" Marvel Comics?

[Kirby Krackle]

Now maybe if all that development still mattered to Carol's character in the current books... oh, wait... KSD wiped her memories of those past battles and triumphs.

We live in this place called realty where those stories and back issues still happened and were read by actual people. So uh, thanks for pointing out a recent plot point that doesn't actually stop any of that from existing. It matters to those who read them. Period.

[ijacksparrow]

Although, I'd prefer they'd titled it something else, I really loved Marvel Boy by Grant Morrison and J.G. Jones. I also loved reading about the Runaways, because the characters were new and fresh, and BKV was writing the book really well and Adrian Alphona was drawing the hell out of them.

I don't think anyone is saying Marvel can't produce books with creativity and freshness. I am definitely not making a case that Marvel should stop trying to promote diversity. I just think they are going about it all wrong.

Precisely my point.

[Myetche]

And while I think that they'll make her show up on Ultimate Spider-Man or something, I think it's a matter of time until she is introduced in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Quite probably in the Inhumans movie first, since we could say she is the most popular Inhuman character out there.

Or maybe it'll be a cartoon that ties into the MCU, but otherwise keeps her strictly animated. DC's doing a similar thing with their Vixen cartoon tying into their LA Arrow and Flash shows.

I just feel the nature of her powers would translate better to animation.

[Arfguy]

Or maybe it'll be a cartoon that ties into the MCU, but otherwise keeps her strictly animated. DC's doing a similar thing with their Vixen cartoon tying into their LA Arrow and Flash shows.

I just feel the nature of her powers would translate better to animation.

Agreed. Shape-shifters either need state-of-the-art movie type FX or animation to look good.

Otherwise, you might end up like Mr. Fantastic in F4:Rise of the Silver Surfer when he's in that nightclub. UGH!

[Guest_1001]

There's the Marcus Incident, and the time got power-drained and mind-raped by Rogue. That's about the full extent of her legacy with the name. The rest of the time, she did little more than exist on the sidelines and occasionally pop up to throw punches during giant fight scenes.

Sharon Ventura used it as a stagename during her wrestling career (before she got turned into "Ben Grimm with boobs"), so she doesn't count. Moonstone was paid by Norman Osborn to effectively impersonate Carol and be a Ms. Marvel HE could control, so she doesn't count, either. I don't consider either of them to be continuing a "legacy".

Nothing like fans dismissing and minimising a female character's achievements to make her out to basically belittle her existence (except as a rape victim who punched things sometimes, of course).

I was a fan of Ms Marvel. Even read her solo series before the Secret Invasion tie-in (which sucked) and really enjoyed it. Contrast that with DeConnick's bland straw feminist and there's no comparison.

Now maybe if all that development still mattered to Carol's character in the current books... oh, wait... KSD wiped her memories of those past battles and triumphs.

Wow, really? Just when I didn't think KSD could get any worse.

[themasething]

To me, this whole thing is just another part in the long line of reboots/rehashes/unneeded changes/new issue 1 thing that Marvel has been doing for the last decade. Series today rarely last to 50 issues these days before getting the reboot. This feels like a second comics crash is incoming. Comic movies are everywhere, companies are rebooting like crazy and changing things up to pull in a "new crowd of readership". Personally I think this is hurting comics more than helping it, especially the secondhand market. An Amazing Spider-man issue 1 or X-Men issue 1 or Avengers issue 1 is now worth nothing (except for the original issue 1s from the 60s-70s) as people know there's going to be another one in a year or so. Nothing in these books feels threatening anymore since it'll disappear when the next reboot comes.

When Secret Wars begins, my buying of Marvel ends. I'm done with a company that feels the need to reboot and change their comics so often that it degrades the stories they are telling and the characters they were building. I'm heading to DC, Image, and smaller publishers were reboots are a little bit rarer and the stories still feel like they have an actual impact on the Universe the writers create.

[Kirby Krackle]

I'm heading to DC... were reboots are a little bit rarer...

W-what does... what?

[chaosfist]

How is this flying over people's heads. Marvel can't be doing diversity wrong because the books you are singling out are selling well. That is all that matters. If they were tanking you might have a point. But Thor has been selling in the top ten each month.

[ijacksparrow]

How is this flying over people's heads. Marvel can't be doing diversity wrong because the books you are singling out are selling well. That is all that matters. If they were tanking you might have a point. But Thor has been selling in the top ten each month.

They aren't selling as well as either The Batman or The Spider-Man books though.

And my opinion is not based solely on the now, I think that these several characters running around with the same superhero name will be damaging to Marvel in the long run. That's my point. Death and Return of Superman sold well too, but literally broke death in comics, something that made people not longer care that much about what happens to a character, since it breaks the suspension of disbelief.

[Kirby Krackle]

They aren't selling as well as either The Batman or The Spider-Man books though.

Your point? They're still selling well. Not everything has to sell Batman or Spider-Man levels to be seen as a success.

[Rogue Star]

I'm not interested in Captain Falcon, Vision, or more Tony Stark. Pepper Pots is probably the only person who can Rescue my interest in this series.

[Kirby Krackle]

Pepper Pots is probably the only person who can Rescue my interest in this series.

I see what you did there.

[Gordonstar]

To me, this whole thing is just another part in the long line of reboots/rehashes/unneeded changes/new issue 1 thing that Marvel has been doing for the last decade. Series today rarely last to 50 issues these days before getting the reboot. This feels like a second comics crash is incoming. Comic movies are everywhere, companies are rebooting like crazy and changing things up to pull in a "new crowd of readership". Personally I think this is hurting comics more than helping it, especially the secondhand market. An Amazing Spider-man issue 1 or X-Men issue 1 or Avengers issue 1 is now worth nothing (except for the original issue 1s from the 60s-70s) as people know there's going to be another one in a year or so. Nothing in these books feels threatening anymore since it'll disappear when the next reboot comes.

When Secret Wars begins, my buying of Marvel ends. I'm done with a company that feels the need to reboot and change their comics so often that it degrades the stories they are telling and the characters they were building. I'm heading to DC, Image, and smaller publishers were reboots are a little bit rarer and the stories still feel like they have an actual impact on the Universe the writers create.

Dc rebooted a lot, only valiant prob has done more. Marvel never reboots at all.

[Trident]

Incorrect, I actually wish Marvel would make their diverse books just like DC does their diverse books with the Batman line. Captain America is Steve Rogers but there are family books: Winter Soldier, Falcon, maybe even Nick Fury and SHIELD and so on. You are missing my point if you still think that I got the wrong example, since I'm telling you that the fact that Batman is THE Batman and he still has a family line with diversity without compromising who Batman is is PRECISELY my whole point.

The fact that DC built Batmans line by estentailly remaking batman and breaking him off into smaller units. The Batman has a whole line of characters because DC diversified the concept.

Also, You are aware that Bruce Wayne has been replaced at least two or three times now right? It's really no different than what is happening to Cap. Again, I really don't think your point is valid and that's based on mutiple examples of diversified products that continue to bring in revenue that is not the orginal concept.

[Kirby Krackle]

Dc rebooted a lot, only valiant prob has done more. Marvel never reboots at all.

I'm thinking he's confusing reboot with relaunch. As in the amount of new #1's.