"All-New, All-Different" Marvel Comics or "All-Derivative, All-Rehashed" Marvel Comics?

[nnelg]

Well the first issue featuring the new team is free, so there's that.

I have no way to know for sure if I'll like a book or not. But there is plenty of advance info about books, I know which creators and topics I like, and so on. From time to time I think it's better to take a chance on something new rather than just continue with something that is familiar, but which isn't really interesting anymore.

Free+Waid=In my collection. If it sucks then the free issue will be it for me.

I think that one issue is usually enough to know if something will be appealing to you. So if you have a set budget for comics in a given month, my recommendation would be to stop buying the title you enjoy the least and pick up something new each month until you find something worth sticking with.

With the way the all the comic companies decompress every story sometimes it takes more than 1 issue.

I don't think that everything any company puts out is all great or all garbage. Each company has its fair share of strong books and its fair share of weak ones.

There are some that do.

The reason that in this thread I think it's relevant to bring up other publishers and other genres is because the OP expressed dissatisfaction with the new Avengers lineup. And his alternatives to this seem to consist of reading DC instead, or wishing that the Avengers book was comprised of a different set of characters who are equally derivative.

If someone was saying that they were sick of what Image and Valiant had to offer, I'd probably bring up Marvel or DC to them.

[ijacksparrow]

Well, I don't think anyone can say you didn't try different things.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying Marvel and DC puts out only crap. I'm just not very fond of this whole trying to promote diversity by using the brand of pre-existing characters. I think Marvel has a lot of characters that can promote diversity that deserve the spotlight.

Well, I don't think anyone can say you didn't try different things.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying Marvel and DC puts out only crap. I'm just not very fond of this whole trying to promote diversity by using the brand of pre-existing characters. I think Marvel has a lot of characters that can promote diversity that deserve the spotlight.

Most of my favorite all time favorite comic books have been promoting diversity even before promoting diversity was a thing. I can safely say that I'm first an X-Men fan and only after that an Avengers fan. I love Runaways to death, and I still think they are the very best "creation" that Marvel has done in this century, trumping other favorites like Kamala Khan and Spider-Gwen (an only Kamala is an actual original character between these other two characters). My problem is regardless the minority push. Captain America dies than Winter Soldier takes over. Captain America dies and Falcon at the moment that he is at his most popular, doesn't get to shine as Falcon, but as Captain America. Winter Soldier, another character at his most popular momento, doesn't get to shine as the super spy book that obviously is where it belongs, but gets to replace Nick Fury as an intergalactic killer.

I just want Marvel to let these characters be who they are. I'm aware that Ed Brubaker's Winter Soldier book didn't sell well, but that was because it was released at the wrong time. If it was released after the film, a superhero spy thriller could be a great entry book for the new fans and people interested in the characters, I know that I'd be interested on reading an Winter Soldier and a Falcon book after CATWS, but not weird adventures in space or Falcon as Cap.Can anyone explain me how it's a good business decision from Marvel to take away the spotlight from Peter Parker, alienating your Peter Parker and after all Spider-Man fans in the process, and at same time making your readers feel bad for wanting the original characters to keep their identity, since the new fans will imply that since you are against these characters been replaced, you are against diversity.

The first time that I've quit comics was after the Clone Saga. Why? Peter Parker wasn't Spider-Man anymore, some guy at a very contrived storyline named Ben Reilly suddenly was the original character. That alienated a LOT of fans, I'm aware that I'm not the only one. How many times Marvel will make their readers go through this? Until there's nothing left but people FIGHTING over their comics instead of buying them? Because I'm seriously not seeing what is Miles Morales audience and demand to take over as Spider-Man to justify that move. All I'm seeing is the majority of the Spider-Man fans fearing for the future of the books after Secret Wars. Can't really understand how these moves actually make sense in the long run. At this point there is not even the shock value there anymore. Peter Parker is getting replaced by Miles Morales. AGAIN. Yay.

And before someone says that we don't know what they are going to do with Miles Morales yet, it's clear that he is front and center in every Marvel big book right now: He is the center character in the first cover of Secret Wars and he is the center character in All-New, All-Different Avengers. It's obvious that Marvel is pushing Miles as "THE" Spider-Man, just like they did with Ultimate Comics before, but this time without killing Peter Parker off. And I ask, is the outrage that they'll cause enough to make that change worthwhile? Is taking Spider-Man from his spotlight once again something that attracts more readers or turns them off? I'm willing to bet on the later. Miles can't carry his own book for the same reason that Ben Reilly couldn't carry his own book: he ISN'T his own character. He is just a Peter Parker copycat, regardless if he is blonde or black, he is still at the end of the day Replacement-Man, and not Spider-Man. Kamala Khan has the approval of the majority of the comic fandom exactly because she isn't a Carol Danvers copycat, he is in fact a more well fleshed out character than Carol Danvers. That's why Miles Morales seems "forced" and Kamala isn't. It's basically because Peter Parker IS Spider-Man, and he shouldn't be anyone else. Just like Foggy Nelson shouldn't become Daredevil.

Can someone picture Foggy Nelson as the DareDevil? As a joke I could see it, but as a main book? I just think Marvel should let these characters be who they are, instead of making several versions of them.

[nnelg]

What I'm saying is, it is possible to promote characters as their own, without needing to borrow brands. What was being said before by the OP is, Batman will always be Bruce Wayne. Sure, they tried to lend out the Batman identity to the likes of Dick Grayson, Jean-Paul Valley and who knows who else, but it's always returned to Bruce Wayne. He's the Batman. Everything else was a fad.

I'm glad that the new female Thor is enjoying success. I would like to see Falcon is finding more success, but as their own character. What is being done now, it's just a band-aid. If they want characters to really prosper, they need to put in some major marketing behind those ideas. Guardians of the Galaxy are not a BIG comic book property, but one movie made Marvel publishing try and put out as much GotG content as possible.

I'm not saying that Marvel should try and get movies of all these characters that are diverse (except Blade. Blade needs more movies, DAMMIT!), but I think making them their own thing is better. I'd be really rolling my eyes if the GotG movie came out and Marvel started selling a title featuring all those characters and calling it "Space Avengers"!

Lame!

I would also but the reality is they would be canceled. Look at Sif when she was the lead people didn't buy it even though it was pretty damn good. It is a hell of a lot better than Thor and Angela are now. But it got canceled. Look at Bucky, as soon as he wasn't Captain America his sales numbers plummet. This would happen to Falcon and Roz. Look at all of the Spiderman legacy characters doing good in sales. Then look at Storm awful sales numbers. It would be nice if the good characters that already existed sold but the solo's that sold Spiderman, Captain America, Wolverine, Thor, Hulk, and Daredevil. These were the characters that had a solo for most of my life. Every time they try a new character in a solo they do not last longer than a couple of years. Dc actually has the template on how to get people to buy deferent characters. They have made tons of legacy characters.

[ijacksparrow]

I would also but the reality is they would be canceled. Look at Sif when she was the lead people didn't buy it even though it was pretty damn good. It is a hell of a lot better than Thor and Angela are now. But it got canceled. Look at Bucky, as soon as he wasn't Captain America his sales numbers plummet. This would happen to Falcon and Roz. Look at all of the Spiderman legacy characters doing good in sales. Then look at Storm awful sales numbers. It would be nice if the good characters that already existed sold but the solo's that sold Spiderman, Captain America, Wolverine, Thor, Hulk, and Daredevil. These were the characters that had a solo for most of my life. Every time they try a new character in a solo they do not last longer than a couple of years. Dc actually has the template on how to get people to buy deferent characters. They have made tons of legacy characters.

Look at the several Guardians of the Galaxy books. If they pushed correctly and gave the right teams the right books, the books would thrive. I'd be all over a superhero spy thriller with Winter Soldier after the film, but the only thing I could get was Winter Soldier replacing Nick Fury as an intergalactic killer. The idea is so out there that could be great, but it's not really something I could see myself invested on. Now an Winter Soldier book as good as Hawkeye but like a Sam Mendes Bond film... that I would be all over the book. And I don't think I'd be the only one. All it takes is good planning and the right writers in the right books at the right time. Harder saying than doing, I know, but it's not impossible. Rocket Raccoon and Starlord have been released almost at same time than the new Miles Morales reboot started and the Guardians solo books have sales a lot better than Miles, and that's because there's demand for their books.

[nnelg]

Look at the several Guardians of the Galaxy books. If they pushed correctly and gave the right teams the right books, the books would thrive. I'd be all over a superhero spy thriller with Winter Soldier after the film, but the only thing I could get was Winter Soldier replacing Nick Fury as an intergalactic killer. The idea is so out there that could be great, but it's not really something I could see myself invested on. Now an Winter Soldier book as good as Hawkeye but like a Sam Mendes Bond film... that I would be all over the book. And I don't think I'd be the only one. All it takes is good planning and the right writers in the right books at the right time. Harder saying than doing, I know, but it's not impossible. Rocket Raccoon and Starlord have been released almost at same time than the new Miles Morales reboot started and the Guardians solo books have sales a lot better than Miles, and that's because there's demand for their books.

Or they have a book because they are in a movie and Marvel is trying to tie the comics to the movies as much as possible. Guardians was good before Bendis was on it. In fact it was a lot better. The only reason he was even on it was because Marvel was making it a movie. The only reason it was being made a movie is because of DnA's awesome run. Nick Fury being a intergalactic killer is stupid.

[Username taken]

I was reading saga but it got bad. I've tried JMS's book, Thief of Thieves, Nameless, Black Science, Deadly Class and The Walking Dead but I didn't like any of them. There are more that I didn't like but I don't remember the names. I like Velvet but I missed a few so I plan to get it in trade. I am trying Birthright and Busiek's new book but I am not sure if I will continue to buy them. I'm also thinking about trying the Mantle. Oh yeah I used to read Invincible but it got bad also. The comic books that I prefer are the superhero comics. I actually like most of the things that Marvel and Dc publish.(that I read) Yes some things could be better like Wolverine being alive but what can we do about it. I just don't see how people keep raving about the greatness of Image and indies comics while saying everything that Marvel and Dc puts out is garbage.

I agree.

Lots of what comes out of Image (believe me I've tried a lot of them) is indulgent nonsense. They have some excellent books but people confuse creator owned with quality. Creator owned books can be crap too as a lot of them are.

[ijacksparrow]

Or they have a book because they are in a movie and Marvel is trying to tie the comics to the movies as much as possible. Guardians was good before Bendis was on it. In fact it was a lot better. The only reason he was even on it was because Marvel was making it a movie. The only reason it was being made a movie is because of DnA's awesome run. Nick Fury being a intergalactic killer is stupid.

And I'm not saying they weren't better before the movie. They were, I was there, buying the DnA books. What I'm saying is that they didn't get the right push. A Winter Soldier comic with him doing superhero spy thriller stuff after the movie would be genius. If instead of Captain Falcon we had a Sam Wilson book with more of an indie/adult flair like Hawkeye we could have three cult books instead of one. What I mean is that Marvel found a way to make HAWKEYE interesting in Matt Fraction. Why not ask for pitches of a FALCON book since Anthony Mackie single handedly (obviously with the Russo Bros help) made the character more popular than ever? Why Falcon NEEDS Captain America to be popular? I blame on lazy writing more than the audience. If you give Falcon the Hawkeye treatment, you can bet that it if wouldn't sell more than Captain Falcon, it would be more respected and maybe even become material to a Falcon solo film. Marvel should be aiming to diversify their IPS, not only diversify the characters using their IPs names. Replacing a character for other is the new "death of whatever hero" gimmick, and at least for me, it's already old.

[KurtW95]

And I'm not saying they weren't better before the movie. They were, I was there, buying the DnA books. What I'm saying is that they didn't get the right push. A Winter Soldier comic with him doing superhero spy thriller stuff after the movie would be genius. If instead of Captain Falcon we had a Sam Wilson book with more of an indie/adult flair like Hawkeye we could have three cult books instead of one. What I mean is that Marvel found a way to make HAWKEYE interesting in Matt Fraction. Why not ask for pitches of a FALCON book since Anthony Mackie single handedly (obviously with the Russo Bros help) made the character more popular than ever? Why Falcon NEEDS Captain America to be popular? I blame on lazy writing more than the audience. If you give Falcon the Hawkeye treatment, you can bet that it if wouldn't sell more than Captain Falcon, it would be more respected and maybe even become material to a Falcon solo film. Marvel should be aiming to diversify their IPS, not only diversify the characters using their IPs names. Replacing a character for other is the new "death of whatever hero" gimmick, and at least for me, it's already old.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Smoov-E]

Captain America dies and Falcon at the moment that he is at his most popular

Cap isn't dead

doesn't get to shine as Falcon, but as Captain America.

Considering a lot of these sold called Falcon fans who come in here and say they love him never popped up in any of the Mighty Avengers thread, not even to give the classic excuse "I'd buy this if Greg Land wasn't drawing it"

Winter Soldier, another character at his most popular momento, doesn't get to shine as the super spy book that obviously is where it belongs, but gets to replace Nick Fury as an intergalactic killer.

Considering that Marvel did give him a spy book and again the people who claim they want him in a spy book never came into any of the threads during that time which again leads to "you had it but you chose not to buy it"

I'm aware that Ed Brubaker's Winter Soldier book didn't sell well, but that was because it was released at the wrong time. If it was released after the film, a superhero spy thriller could be a great entry book for the new fans and people interested in the characters,

It was still going after the movie came out complete with a new creative team, again the people who now claim they want it didn't buy it then cause again during the time in the threads about the series these fans weren't in them

I know that I'd be interested on reading an Winter Soldier and a Falcon book after CATWS

Again Winter Soldier had one and a mini afterwards and Falcon joined two Avengers squads afterwards and nobody talked about him being there outside of "he took the spot of a better character"

but not weird adventures in space or Falcon as Cap.

You do know he wasn't in space the entire time right?

Can anyone explain me how it's a good business decision from Marvel to take away the spotlight from Peter Parker

Still waiting to see how Peter doesn't have the spotlight or one of the many spotlights Marvel has shined on many a character at the moment

alienating your Peter Parker and after all Spider-Man fans in the process

The amount of "fans" alienated isn't as big as you think it is

and at same time making your readers feel bad for wanting the original characters to keep their identity

The readers that feel bad as as small as the fans upset Peter lost something

since the new fans will imply that since you are against these characters been replaced, you are against diversity.

Or would ask what's with the buzzkill attitude

The first time that I've quit comics was after the Clone Saga. Why? Peter Parker wasn't Spider-Man anymore, some guy at a very contrived storyline named Ben Reilly suddenly was the original character. That alienated a LOT of fans, I'm aware that I'm not the only one.

You might be the only one who is still "upset" and hasn't bought any of the Clone Saga reprints that Marvel has been selling a lot of, Marvel wouldn't have collected it if there wasn't money to be found there

How many times Marvel will make their readers go through this? Until there's nothing left but people FIGHTING over their comics instead of buying them?

So far there's only a small handful of people online who fight over them, there's a large chunk that apparently buys and enjoys them

Because I'm seriously not seeing what is Miles Morales audience and demand to take over as Spider-Man to justify that move.

Still waiting on where it shown or written that your conspiracy theory is happening

All I'm seeing is the majority of the Spider-Man fans fearing for the future of the books after Secret Wars.

People complaining online does not make a majority

Can't really understand how these moves actually make sense in the long run.

It's simple, there are people who are buying single issues and trade paper backs of stuff featuring characters you don't like to justify their continued existence

Peter Parker is getting replaced by Miles Morales. AGAIN. Yay.

A Peter Parker got replaced by Miles and it wasn't even the real deal, I know that pre CBR reboot you went out of your way to tell us how the creation of Miles is a bad idea and you prayed for him to crash and burn and when it was pointed out to you that Ult. Peter is not even the real one you then went on a tirade that 616 Peter is a waste of space as well and then when Spider-Men was announced you returned after your self imposed exile to tell us that your wishes had been answered and the days of Miles was over only to get your feelings hurt. You're all over the place in your hate but hey at least you're still consistent after all this time about Miles

And before someone says that we don't know what they are going to do with Miles Morales yet, it's clear that he is front and center in every Marvel big book right now: He is the center character in the first cover of Secret Wars and he is the center character in All-New, All-Different Avengers.

You do know that Peter is also front and center in the Secret Wars teaser and first issue cover, Peter is also front in center in Renew Your Vows so both are featured on two stories each that we are aware of( Peter is also on AvX Babies so that's three for him )

It's obvious that Marvel is pushing Miles as "THE" Spider-Man, just like they did with Ultimate Comics before

It's not obvious that they're pushing Miles as "THE" Spider-Man, Ultimate Peter doesn't count as that wasn't the real one he was A version of Peter Parker/Spider-Man and that point was driven home in Spider-Verse

but this time without killing Peter Parker off.

Still waiting on evidence that is happening

And I ask, is the outrage that they'll cause enough to make that change worthwhile?

If it did happen probably because people who complain online have shown that they'll still buy it anyway making any outrage pointless

Is taking Spider-Man from his spotlight once again something that attracts more readers or turns them off?

His spotlight hasn't been taken away

I'm willing to bet on the later.

You should stop betting and start showing proof that he's being killed off or had his spotlight taken

Miles can't carry his own book for the same reason that Ben Reilly couldn't carry his own book: he ISN'T his own character.

Miles has carried his own book actually, his book is only ending because of Secret Wars and odds are when Secret Wars starts up we'll get word that his series will restart because new universe and all that

He is just a Peter Parker copycat

Spoken like someone who hasn't read more then one issue of a comic starring Miles

regardless if he is blonde or black, he is still at the end of the day Replacement-Man, and not Spider-Man.

He's not a replacement man he's a Spider-Man. It's not out the realm of possibility that Miguel O' Hara was someone's first Spider-Man as much as it is and it's been told/seen/shown that Miles is someone's Spider-Man just like Parker before him

Kamala Khan has the approval of the majority of the comic fandom exactly because she isn't a Carol Danvers copycat, he is in fact a more well fleshed out character than Carol Danvers.

The people who like Kamala are far more then the people online who say they don't and since those people are spending their money to show that they do who do you think Marvel is going to listen to, same with Carol and so on

That's why Miles Morales seems "forced" and Kamala isn't.

They're both not but I know you hate one of those two far more then the other

It's basically because Peter Parker IS Spider-Man

So is Miles just like Miguel

and he shouldn't be anyone else.

He's what Marvel wants him to be and right now Marvel wants him to be a Spider-Man of many

I just think Marvel should let these characters be who they are, instead of making several versions of them.

They are letting them be who they are just because you don't like it doesn't mean they're not

[Kirby Krackle]

Hating fictional characters is rather silly. lol.

[Mighty Roman]

Hating fictional characters is rather silly. lol.

True. There's only two reasons to hate a fictional character. You hate to love them, or love to hate them. Hating a character's concept is ridiculous. There are no bad ideas, only poorly executed ones.

[Kirby Krackle]

True. There's only two reasons to hate a fictional character. You hate to love them, or love to hate them. Hating a character's concept is ridiculous. There are no bad ideas, only poorly executed ones.

Aye to that. I honestly find it laughable that people can dedicate so much time to hating or bashing a fictional character. Not caring for a character is one thing, but going on long rants why character x is so terrible is... it's just a waste of time.

[Mighty Roman]

Aye to that. I honestly find it laughable that people can dedicate so much time to hating or bashing a fictional character. Not caring for a character is one thing, but going on long rants why character x is so terrible is... it's just a waste of time.

Yeah. You could be talking or reading about something you do like, instead of insulting the things you don't like. If you don't like a character, don't read them. I hate how so many Nova and Inhuman threads turn into flame wars. Considering that The Human Torch is now starring in Uncanny Inhumans, that's going to happen even more often.

[yet another]

Hating fictional characters is rather silly. lol.

Not that I necessarily disagree, but wouldn't the same hold for loving a fictional character? Or do you think that is that silly too?

[Kirby Krackle]

Not that I necessarily disagree, but wouldn't the same hold for loving a fictional character? Or do you think that is that silly too?

I don't find that silly at all. Loving a fictional character comes out of enjoying said character and the stories they appear in. Hating a fictional character puts effort into something that can easily be avoided by simply not paying any thought to this bit of fiction that makes you unhappy. Why dwell on an aspect of creative fiction that brings you to such a low state? Would it not be wise to focus on those characters that bring a sense of joy? Essentially, you gain something from loving a character but you lose many things from hating a character. Such time and effort wasted on something you have zero interest in to begin with. It's self defeating really.

One is a positive experience and one is a negative experience.